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jocky McKenzie

what type of head cement

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Hi all, just wanted to ask about head cement, i buy the small bottles from my local shop, but does ordinary (hard as nails) nail varnish do the same job as it seems a lot cheaper and you get more of it  

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Watch any of Tim Flagler's videos and he always finishes with Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails (SHHAN) , which is nail polish.

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Sally Hanson hard as nails seems to be a favorite but any clear nail polish on sale or you can buy a quart of clear high gloss lacquer. I will buy colors of nail polish on sale for fly and jig heads. Reds, purples, pearl white, black, & yellow not only for heads but to paint eye's on fly head. Use a pencil sharpener to put a point on a dowel to the size you want then add eye color wait until dry then make one smaller for the pupil and dab it on, makes nice eye's on streamers painted hopper eye's on foam flies or whatever you want.  The funny side is asking the women watching you buy the nail polish if they think this is my color...….

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48 minutes ago, Noahguide said:

Watch any of Tim Flagler's videos and he always finishes with Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails (SHHAN) , which is nail polish.

i was hoping for replies like this as i couldn't see why it had to be expensive fly tying varnish when is you guys have said does the trick :) 

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Sally Hansen is about all I use to finish the head on my flies, though @cphubert is probably right, any clear nail polish should do.  I'll also use black nail polish on streamer heads, and other colors from my daughters' stash for the few panfish jig heads I tie.   

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Dollar Tree and Harbor Freight sell CA glue in small tubes. I use them for attaching vanes to arrows. Have used it for flies, too.

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I've always liked Sally H's because it soaks into the thread wraps and seals the materials together beneath your finishing knot vs. some glues that will harden on the outside and won't really soak in.

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12 hours ago, jocky McKenzie said:

Hi all, just wanted to ask about head cement, i buy the small bottles from my local shop, but does ordinary (hard as nails) nail varnish do the same job as it seems a lot cheaper and you get more of it  

 

Go to the dollar store and look at the ingredient list for the nail polishes you find there.

For those of you that use Sally Hansen Hard as Nails as a head cement, the chemical composition is Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, N-butyl Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, and Nitrocellulose. The solvent is composed of the first 4 acetates and alcohols.

Almost all head cement is a formulation of nail polish. For example, Hard as Hull Head Cement is nail polish. It is manufactured by Lacquerite, Inc. for BackCountry Laboratories which is  trademark of Prestige Cosmetics. Lacquerite is a major manufacturer of nail polish.

“On Monday, August 30, 1999, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES by PRESTIGE COSMETICS, Deerfield Beach 33442. The USPTO has given the BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES trademark serial number of 75787956.”

BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES Trademark of PRESTIGE COSMETICS. Serial Number: 75787956 :: Trademarkia Trademarks

https://www.facebook.com/Lacquerite/

HHHD-2.jpg

The ingredients of Hard as Hull are Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, Isopropyl Alcohol, Nitrocellulose, N-butyl Alcohol, and Camphor. Sound familiar? Slightly different order of ingredients and Camphor. Nail polishes contain camphor as a plasticizer. Does the list sound familiar. Check it against the Sally Hansen’s Formulation.

Since the volatile head cements seem to be formulations of nail polish, I recommend a thinner such as the Beauty Secrets Nail Polish Thinner. It is the house brand at Sally Beauty Shop and sells for about $4.50 for 4 ozs. The ingredients are Butyl Acetate, Ethyl Acetate, and Heptane. The evaporation index is less than acetone and so the head cement will last longer.

Both ethyl acetate and butyl acetate, the two primary solvents used in nail polish, evaporate more slowly than acetone. Both the ethyl and butyl acetates will be the first two ingredients in nail polish. The mixture of the two controls the evaporation rate.

 

Dissolving Solvent Relative Evaporation Rate - lower number = slower evaporation

Acetone * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *5.7

Ethyl Acetate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4.1

Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) * * * * * 3.8

Isopropyl Acetate * * * * * * * * * * * * *3.0

Heptane * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *2.8

Methyl n-Propyl Ketone * * * * * * * *2.3

Propyl Acetate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *2.3

Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK) * * 1.6

Isobutyl Acetate * * * * * * * * * * * * * *1.4

Butyl Acetate * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *1.0

 

SBS-163400.png

 

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I have no trouble with the CA glue soaking into the thread and/or materials. One problem might be using gel instead of the thin formula.

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Currently I am using the Loon head cement products. They seem to do the job just fine and is easy enough to work with.

For years I used the lacquer from Home depot. It was indeed a lifetime supply and for a while worked and looked great. I noticed over time the lacquer would turn to a yellow finish rather than clear when used heavily. For my every day patterns it didn't matter much but I still have some kicking around that just don't look very good. Maybe I bought the wrong stuff? 

CCW

 

 

 

 

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On 12/13/2020 at 9:20 AM, cphubert said:

Sally Hanson hard as nails seems to be a favorite but any clear nail polish on sale or you can buy a quart of clear high gloss lacquer. I will buy colors of nail polish on sale for fly and jig heads. Reds, purples, pearl white, black, & yellow not only for heads but to paint eye's on fly head. Use a pencil sharpener to put a point on a dowel to the size you want then add eye color wait until dry then make one smaller for the pupil and dab it on, makes nice eye's on streamers painted hopper eye's on foam flies or whatever you want.  The funny side is asking the women watching you buy the nail polish if they think this is my color...….

For eyes I use a round toothpick - cut near the halfway point for the white/red/yellow part and the tip for the pupil.

Kim

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On 12/13/2020 at 10:57 AM, Landon P said:

Super glue works well and if you apply the least amount it dries with some shine. 

I use super glue (zap a gap thin mostly) for various things but "head cement" has never been one of those things....  Two weeks ago,  I was gluing dumbell eyes after wrapping them on streamer hooks and I managed to drip a LARGE drop of it right on a new spool of white 6/0 Danville Waxed Flymaster thread.   It made a huge stain over a large part of the thread on the spool and I thought that was the end of that-  it's useless.    The next day I messed around with it and found even though it is totally visible and "stiff" on the spool where the glue is,  the thread comes off the spool almost like nothing happened and is not degraded or unusable at all.      I get it,  it isn't like the entire spool was saturated and it isn't under high tension on the spool, but it does make me wonder about the way we use it. 

for what it's worth,  I've been using SHHAN for well more than 30 years as head cement.   Thinned with Ethyl Acetate (NOT Acetone) when needed or wanted and it has never let me down.    When used on white thread it tends to make it fairly transparent too,  letting the colors of the materials underneath show through.  At least if you don't use ridiculously too many thread wraps.   Gives a nice effect on bucktails.    I'm sure other head cements do that too.  

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On 12/13/2020 at 11:53 PM, skeet3t said:

Dollar Tree and Harbor Freight sell CA glue in small tubes. I use them for attaching vanes to arrows. Have used it for flies, too.

thxs for the advice guys, so the theme here is don't buy the small ripoff bottles of cement you can get from tackle shops lol o and thxs for recommending Dollar Tree Skeet, but there are not much Dollar shops here in Scotland :)  

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