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chugbug27

Swisher & Richards' "Master List of Patterns"

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I'm almost finished reading Swisher & Richards' Selective Trout. 50 years late to the party, but what the heck. Neat book. But I do have a question for anyone who's tried relying on their Master List of Patterns...

At p.125, they provide a "Master List of Patterns" for targeting the "Super Hatches" -- explaining that "probably 80 percent of all fly-fishing to rising trout would be to these insects" (p.120) and that the "Master Patterns will . . . imitate the Super Hatches effectively." (p.121)

Sounds great. But... has anyone found it actually worked well for them?

One reason I ask is that it seems to conflict with their own color theory for imitating bugs for selective trout. Their Master Patterns have bodies of one color fur for each fly. Either tan, brown, olive, yellow, cream, OR dark mole, but no mixes of color. Yet their color theory spelled out in detail throughout the book seems at odds with this approach... It is roughly as follows:

1. Each type of bug will have different mixes of body shades at different times and places,

2. but "the trout picks out the color he wants to see," (p.57)

3. So for "an angler who wants to keep his . . . patterns to a minimum," the best approach would be to mix into the body a variety of fur colors that represent the range of possibilities. (pp. 56&57)

They further claim that selective trout will reject a fly that is mis-colored (e.g., p.25) and recommend tying streamside as "essential to successful fishing"... (p.51), . . . so they cover both bases. 

(I do enjoy the book, btw.)

So... To try the Master Pattern List of 14 patterns, or discard it as a gimmick and move on? Anyone try it and fail? Try it and succeed? Something in the middle? Thanks in advance for responses.

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Hmm. It's a conundrum, a  Quandary, an enigma. I haven't read the book (although I might, now that you brought it to my attention) and I am mostly just a wise guy anyway so to quote another famous fly fishing author, I say "Let's just go fishing" 😁

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I'll have to plead ignorance of the publication but one can find patterns that have proven themselves over the years. However, trout can be picky as to color, size, etc. On the ontehr hand, they will hit a golf ball on a hook if the mood strikes them. I have three tying books and some of the patterns are well over 100 years old.

Good fishing and tight lines with screaming drags!

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1 hour ago, chugbug27 said:

I'm almost finished reading Swisher & Richards' Selective Trout. 50 years late to the party, but what the heck. Neat book. But I do have a question for anyone who's tried relying on their Master List of Patterns...

At p.125, they provide a "Master List of Patterns" for targeting the "Super Hatches" -- explaining that "probably 80 percent of all fly-fishing to rising trout would be to these insects" (p.120) and that the "Master Patterns will . . . imitate the Super Hatches effectively." (p.121)

Sounds great. But... has anyone found it actually worked well for them?

One reason I ask is that it seems to conflict with their own color theory for imitating bugs for selective trout. Their Master Patterns have bodies of one color fur for each fly. Either tan, brown, olive, yellow, cream, OR dark mole, but no mixes of color. Yet their color theory spelled out in detail throughout the book seems at odds with this approach... It is oughly as follows:

1. Each type of bug will have different mixes of body shades at different times and places,

2. but "the trout picks our the color he wants to see," (p.57)

3. So for "an angler who wants to keep his . . . patterns to a minimum," the best approach would be to mix into the body a variety of fur colors that represent the range of possibilities. (pp. 56&57)

They further claim that selective trout will reject a fly that is mis-colored. (e.g., p.25)

They also recommend tying streamside as "essential to successful fishing"... (p.51) so they cover a lot of different bases. 

(I do enjoy the book, btw.)

So... To try the Master Pattern List of 14 patterns, or discard it as a gimmick and move on? Anyone try it and fail? Try it and succeed? Something in the middle? Thanks in advance for responses.

Here's my take.

For color theory in fly fishing read Fly-tyer's Color Guide by Al Caucci/Bob Nastasi. They write that the colors of insects and other prey that trout feed on are NOT uniform but are made up of different colors and shades that both humans and trout "see" as one color. They make the argument that any color can be made up of a combination of red, blue and yellow shades. Note the mayfly below.

mayfly_on_leaf.jpg

 

With that knowledge as a backdrop, I believe that nothing that S&R write is "wrong" per se about naturals being composed of different colors and shades as in the mayfly above. Also Selective Trout was written in 1971 well before modern research into trout vision and specifically before Dr. Gordon Byrnes research which was published in Fly Fisherman Magazine in the July 1990 issue in the article. "How Trout See." In this article, Dr. Byrnes shows that by examining the trout eye and specifically the retina, trout see 1/14 the detail we humans see because the color receptors in the trout retina not as closely packed. So what they is more "pixelated" that what we see.

Here is what a real insect looks like to a trout.

Mayfly at 6 inches

35593440821_eac5b164ec_c.jpgg]

Mayfly at 3 inches

34915156923_708efe48f7_z.jpg

So trout do not see well and they do not see DETAIL well at all. So they have less ability that we humans have to pick out the individual colors of dubbing fibers that create the overall color/shade of a fly.

The second reality is that all trout do not act the same. In other words, like any populations of animals including humans, they vary in behavior. So a fly that may fool one fish may not fool a more "selective" fish.

Read my post on selectivity on this thread on "What Trout See"

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=72113

In summary, I believe that for selective trout you may hook a few more fish when fishing to selective trout using spectrumized dubbing; BUT, is it really worth it to try to mix your own dubbing when most of the fish you will fish for will be not that selective at all?

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Most of the flies in "Selective Trout" are for smooth clear water such as tail waters or spring creeks.  Freestone stream trout seem to be fooled by less realistic flies.  The flies in that book will mostly sink where I fish.  Also, fish are less selective sub surface.  You guys know this.  I felt compelled to write this for some reason.  Time for more coffee.

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Considering what the trout actually see (Silver's post above) it would appear that it doesn't much matter what color you use.  It's more shape and size that counts.  As to color, just maybe stick to a light, medium or dark shade and go with that.  I've always read that if they aren't hitting what you are using, first change the size.

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^^^^ What he said. Hatches have to be regular and prolific and the water surface smooth enough for the fish to see the fly well enough to refuse poor imitation and/or presentations with micro drag.

 

37807516476_a96e590af1_z.jpg

30538785108_c0afa55850_z.jpg

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About 45 years ago I read the book and thought Minnesota would be similar to their Michigan. The streams I fished; the Kinni, Willow, and Whitewater seemed like the waters they talked about. I used their data and applied it to my local flies and waters. I can’t walk the streams anymore, so I have gotten rid of my books, waders, etc. I would say use their information and make it work for you and your situation. 
Tom

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22 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

For color theory in fly fishing read Fly-tyer's Color Guide by Al Caucci/Bob Nastasi

I'll keep my eye out.

23 hours ago, skeet3t said:

Good fishing and tight lines

 

23 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

Let's just go fishing

✌️

5 hours ago, DarrellP said:

Most of the flies in "Selective Trout" are for smooth clear water such as tail waters or spring creeks.

 

3 hours ago, dave said:

Considering what the trout actually see

 

3 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

Hatches have to be regular and prolific and the water surface smooth enough for the fish to see the fly well enough to refuse poor imitation

I'm hoping to do some road traveling to a variety of spring creeks, tail waters, etc over the next five to ten years (hopefully more) while I'm still in good wading health and fish the hatches. As long as I'm tying I may as well fill some useful boxes rather than spend more travel time tying or spend more travel $ buying local flies. I'll travel to some other types of waters, too, but I'm less concerned with what to tie in advance for those circs.

 

49 minutes ago, MuskyFlyGuy said:

I used their data and applied it to my local flies and waters.

...

I would say use their information and make it work for you and your situation. 

49 minutes ago, MuskyFlyGuy said:

 

So sounds like their "system" worked well for you, Tom? I did find the book in large part convincing, even fifty years later, at least for mayfly hatches. They do have a lot of blind spots... Caddis, midges... But nobody's perfect.

 

Thanks for the responses, guys. Much appreciated.

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Think how much has changed in your life over the past 50 years. 51 years ago I was still in the Air Force. I dog eared that book and used it to develop a strong understanding of mayflies. I would still use it for mayflies and use more contemporary books and ideas like caddis. 
Tom

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For some fun, I experimented.  Fished a pmd hatch on Armstrong’s spring creek (Montana) with sparkle duns tied with five body colors: yellow, grey, brown, green, and... PINK!!!  It made NO difference!  Caught fish on all of them.  Then I changed size.  No fish!

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2 hours ago, Sundance said:

For some fun, I experimented.  Fished a pmd hatch on Armstrong’s spring creek (Montana) with sparkle duns tied with five body colors: yellow, grey, brown, green, and... PINK!!!  It made NO difference!  Caught fish on all of them.  Then I changed size.  No fish!

Did you keep track of refusals? I think something like a take to refusal ratio would indicate the most effective fly that day.

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