Jump to content
Fly Tying
flytire

are we being duped, cheated, fooled, mislead to get our hard earned money

Recommended Posts

On 9/22/2021 at 4:59 PM, Mark Knapp said:

You are only being duped, if you have been mislead, Or what you receive is not as advertised.  If you can see what you are getting, and getting what you are seeing, and the price is as advertised, no surprise charges, then you are not being duped. You always have the option to walk away or look for options as you clearly do.

I must respectfully disagree. Dupers mislead and prey upon the sick, lame, lazy and stupid to make a buck. That’s why they are so effective. Someone who takes a 2 dollar knit picker, re-brands it as a hopper leg tool and sells it for 12 dollars is not only a cheat but also a low down conniving cheat. Some may consider that savvy business but I consider it being a scumbag. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few of you may have misread my first post about the threads I use, and the savings that I get.  I save about 75 to 85% by purchasing in bulk, and certainly a LOT more than .20 cents a spool.  My average cost per 100 yards is $0.20 including the shipping.  Veevus cost 3.25, UCT 2.25, and Danville 1.25 (half a 200 yard spool,) I save $3.05 over Veevus, $2.05 over UTC, and 1.05 over Danville.    I consider these brands to be among the best in traditional threads.   I have never tried any of the newer Nano Silk or GSP thread that cost about twice as much.   

I don't use the Skala and Serger threads simply because they are less expensive.  The Skala threads have worked well for me for over 10 years.  They are multifilament polyester, and will lay flat and also, can be split.  The finer sizes like the 360 are too thin for everything but midges, but they tie them fine, and add almost no bulk.  Since I load any and all thread onto my Auto-bobbin spools, and can usually load much more than 100 yards on a spool, I save time as well.   

All these threads I use works for me. so I will continue to use them.  I did not in my first post suggest that any one else use them; in fact I did point out that they only come in very large spools which have to be re-spooled in order for use.  Since I do that with all threads, getting these bulk spools works for ME, they  may not be right for others.   

While we are talking about savings, here is an even better price on a Nit Picker.  I find these work much better than a loop of mono for pulling legs through foam bugs.

image.png.88910da31d07b5783079b0494740e659.png

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Poopdeck said:

I must respectfully disagree. Dupers mislead and prey upon the sick, lame, lazy and stupid to make a buck. That’s why they are so effective. Someone who takes a 2 dollar knit picker, re-brands it as a hopper leg tool and sells it for 12 dollars is not only a cheat but also a low down conniving cheat. Some may consider that savvy business but I consider it being a scumbag. 

If you see a three dollar can of peas in a grocery store and you don't see the $1.50 can of peas so you buy the three dollar can of peas, have you been duped?

I personally would rather have a 12 dollar knit picker with a nice wooden handle nice findings and stout shaft and hook, hopefully made in the US, than a cheap plastic one for $1.39 made in China. None of these things are created equal. People seem to be comparing apple to oranges in this thread.

There's a guy in my town who sells what he calls "Custom Hand Made knives" and claims to have made them himself with quality steel and exotic handle materials. In truth, he gets them from Pakistan, they have soft damascus blades and handles of water buffalo bone and water buffalo horn. Both cheap (almost free) commodities. People come in my store and ask me why he can sell a damascus knife with a six inch blade and a handle of exotic materials for $175.00 and I have the gall to sell "apparently" the same knife for upwards of $3000,00. I have over a hundred hours into my knives, they have real damascus and handles of gem quality ivory or other exotic materials. He gets his from Pakistan for $75.00 and says he makes them. I make $30.00 an hour and put blood sweat and tears into every knife, he makes $100.00 just for telling a lie. If you ask me, the guy that bought his knife is the one that got duped.

If you have the choice to get knit picker X for $2.00 and the exact same one for $12.00,  many times the 12 dollar one includes shipping.

It's all about choices. It's about reading the fine print, doing some shopping and becoming educated. It's very easy to comparison shop these days. If a ten year old with a cell phone can do it, anybody can.

I would rather have the choice of the two knit pickers, that are very different, than have to just be stuck with the cheap one for $1.39.

I sympathize with the sick and lame, not so much the lazy and the stupid. Hopefully they can all get help from a teenager (you know, to run that internet machine thingy) so they don't have to feel duped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great point on the knives not so on the corn and knit picker. You can glue a sewing tool into plastic or wood it’s still a knit picker unless you want to sell it for a 1000% profit. What you do with your knives is craftsmanship. Gluing a sewing tool into a piece of wood and marking it up considerably is not, its gouging. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Poopdeck said:

Great point on the knives not so on the corn and knit picker. You can glue a sewing tool into plastic or wood it’s still a knit picker unless you want to sell it for a 1000% profit. What you do with your knives is craftsmanship. Gluing a sewing tool into a piece of wood and marking it up considerably is not, its gouging. 

You are assuming that the metal parts are the same. If I drop the thing, and I will, and the Chinese one bends, but the other one doesn't because it's made of better steel, the extra $10.61 is worth it to me. Would you be willing to glue that tip into a wooden handle for a lousy $10.61. Not me.

Back before I became a custom knife maker, I owned and ran my own saw and tool repair shop. A customer came in, in a huge hurry and needed some large molder/planer blades for a log turning mill that he owned. It was log home building season and he needed blades fast, the season is short. I didn't normally carry the size and brand he needed so I told him I would find the ones he needed and get them here for him. I found them at one of my normal suppliers, ordered them and had them shipped priority mail. I payed the charge for the planer blades $100.00, payed the shipping, $15.00 +, payed the credit card bill and the long distance phone charge and I added just a little for my time. I called him and told him I had them in and he was elated. He came and got them. I week later he came charging into my shop and said that he found them in Seattle for $100.00 and how could it possibly be that I would charge him $130.00 bucks for an item he could have gotten for $100.00, he was literally spitting mad. He called me every kind of crook, a lot of the same words you are using.

I explained to him that the place I got them from must have had a better source than I did and could sell them cheaper, plus, I had shipping. Plus that, I had to assume the liability of the warranty for the part and the liability of it if he hurt himself with it. I thought I had done him a favor. I made a lousy ten bucks and had to put up with abuse from that guy. He left, still pissed and I haven't seen him since. Good riddance to him and every body like him.

Everybody that complains about a business should start his own business and try it for a while (In my humble opinion).

Do you know, if I sharpen a tool for somebody, I assume the liability for that tool if someone hurts themselves with it. That's why hatchets and axes are not sharp when you buy them now. I charge $10.00-$20.00 to sharpen a hatchet. Not because it takes that much time to sharpen one but because it costs that much to insure it. The insurance for a saw and tool sharpening shop is in the same bracket as a logging company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Poopdeck said:

Great point on the knives not so on the corn and knit picker. You can glue a sewing tool into plastic or wood it’s still a knit picker unless you want to sell it for a 1000% profit. What you do with your knives is craftsmanship. Gluing a sewing tool into a piece of wood and marking it up considerably is not, its gouging. 

It was peas 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys making all that commotion about specialized products for our industry being copied and sold for pennies on the dollar by unscrupulous entrepreneurs for other markets should be mad at those selling items designed for fly fishing to other markets cheap. Ain't right to undercut an industry living by it's shoestrings on the tight fisted dollars spent by the rich fly fishermen and fly tyers.

And anyway, if you really want to see this type of markup in action just buy a Harley motorcycle. 1/4" x 3" bolt at hardware store .07 cents. Bolt in bag with Harley parts #  1.75. The old joke about HD standing for Hunnert Dollah ain't just a joke.

I should edit this to add boat owners also know this game. Boat, "Hole in the water in which you throw money". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little off topic but a Whiting Silver Cree Cape sold for 580.00 tonight on e bay.  The seller always seems to be able to get

these Whiting Crees and always makes out pretty well.  Whiting should run down this scalping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2021 at 9:40 PM, vicrider said:

 Ain't right to undercut an industry living by it's shoestrings on the tight fisted dollars spent by the rich fly fishermen and fly tyers.

 I agree, I just ordered an Orvis reel for a bamboo rod  I'm building over the winter (from a blank).  I purchased the reel and the bamboo blank from independent fly shops and not from the box stores even though I could have saved myself $10 on the reel, probably $20 if I ordered it through Amazon.  Now Amazon and the local box store do get their share of my fun money because they're convenient.   The box is 10 minutes from my office with the fly shop being 30.  However I do try to make any of my larger purchases from privately owned fly shops because their knowledge and passion for our sport usually far surpasses the "just a job" employees at the box stores.   Passion and knowledge have a lot of value to me.  I'm aware that almost everything in a fly shop can be had cheaper on line but If we don't support our local independents stores , sporting goods, hardware, pharmacies ect. they will fail.  That will lead to a world of endless box stores staffed by employees with "deer in the headlights" expressions on their faces.   I'm willing pay little more to avoid that fate.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DFoster said:

However I do try to make any of my larger purchases from privately owned fly shops because their knowledge and passion for our sport usually far surpasses the "just a job" employees at the box stores.   Passion and knowledge have a lot of value to me.  I'm aware that almost everything in a fly shop can be had cheaper on line but If we don't support our local independents stores , sporting goods, hardware, pharmacies ect. they will fail.  That will lead to a world of endless box stores staffed by employees with "deer in the headlights" expressions on their faces.   I'm willing pay little more to avoid that fate.  

I agree 100%. Plus most of the local fly shop folks are good people too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...