Hook breaking while tying

[Trouttramp 0]

Do any of you have a problem with hooks breaking while tying flys?

In the last 3 days I have broken 4 hooks while tying up some fat alberts. Aren’t hooks supposed to bend before breaking? A couple flys were finished, noticed they were broken when removed from the vise. Some broke while finishing the head with whip finisher.

In my 20 years of tying flys, I’ve maybe broken 3 hooks total before this. 
 

All we’re from the same package, same brand. The  hook package is blacked out, boat want to mention the brand by name.

I have an email in to the hook company, don’t expect much back from them.

TT

[Trouttramp 0]

I believe some broke while clamping in vise.

 

I am off to Orvis ( Not the original brand) for a new pack, going to toss out the batch of flys and start over.

[Mark Knapp 0]

Yep, you got a bad batch of hooks.

[Trouttramp 0]

2 hours ago, chugbug27 said:

Deleted

Chugbug, I took no offense whatsoever from your original  post, I’m Always looking for tying advice.  I agree that when tying on long hooks, they can bend repeatedly and eventually fatigue break. I do try to support them  with my off hand when doing so. 
 

TT

 

[skeet3t 0]

I always flatten the barb on all fly hooks. If one breaks, I'm out a hook and not an entire fly. In 25+ years of tying, I have had one hook break. I use several brands of hooks so it would be impossible to say what brand broke. Never had a hook break while tying.

[chugbug27 0]

😎👍

[robow7 0]

I once got a hold of a pack of hooks that were quite brittle and broke easily by just looking at them wrong.  They were fine for small panfish but I sure wouldn't have trusted them for anything else, and yes, they were a cheap No-name brand that was given to me at a group fly tie gathering.

[vicrider 0]

What robow7 said. I have over the years gotten a couple of brittle batches of hooks and since, like skeet I crush barbs on most hooks I find right off the bat if the hook is brittle in that batch. Breaking the hook while trying to crush barb can happen on good hooks once in a great while but when it starts to happen a lot with a batch I toss them. I generally watch for hooks on a big sale from Classified and once in a awhile get some that someone else didn't want but couldn't bear to toss so I end  up doing it.

 

[kerusso 0]

Several months ago while tying up some streamer patterns I noticed some of the hooks I was using were  .... soft.  After placing them in the vise I bent three while winding on chenille and that had never happened.  They weren't brittle, they simply bent with the slightest pressure.  So I pitched those three hooks and kept tying.  I purchased the hooks from a pretty well known business and they were also not expensive hooks.  My take is this.... seems that there is always the possibility of having brittle or soft hooks whether you get top of the line hooks or economy.  I have also heard of people getting bad batches where most of the hooks in the pack have the same weakness.  Hopefully the shop or manufacturer will replace an entire box or pack with mostly defective hooks with premium hooks costing 35 to 50 cents per hook (and I know that is a  low estimate for a lot of you who fish premium hooks).

[chugbug27 0]

...from  "A Book on Angling," by Francis Francis (1867)

[niveker 0]

Nice, Chug - so even after 150+ years of technology marching onwards, we fly fishers and tyers are still stuck with the same old problems.   Plus ça change...

[Philly 0]

Someone gave a bunch of no-name hooks they were dull but I decided to tie on them.  Problem was every time I tried to crush the barb, they would break at the bend.  I still have them.  I should just throw them out and clear some space.  I use a lot of Eagle Claw Crappie hooks for some of my patterns.  They're thin wire, but I like the round bend and wide gape and when you get up to a size 3/0 they're not flexible.  I've never had one break on me, but have bent them out of line when tying.  I just straighten them back in line.  I do create my own problems.  I have an aversion to down eyed hooks, and I will attempt to straighten the ones I have with flat pliers even though I know it will weaken the hook.  I've had mixed success.  Some hooks will break at the eye when I do it, others will straighten.  These are not cheap hooks.  Just some are more brittle than others.  Another bad habit when  I try to straighten is heat the hook to make it easier to straighten.   Same results, some straighten and I never had one break when I'm fishing a fly tied on them.  Others look fine, but when I test them the eye will break off in my finger.  Let this be a parable to new tyers of what not to do with down-eyed hooks.                  

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

As a commercial tyer I've used a ton of hooks over the years and every now and then I've gotten a bad batch (either soft and weak  -or tempered too much and very brittle as a result) so I've learned to check them - before using.  I'm not using freshwater hooks since I'm a saltwater guy... If I can bend a hook easily just using my hands I consider it "soft" and won't use them (pretty tough when you're buying  hooks by the thousand per size..).  Hooks that are brittle and will break before bending are also a problem -but in the other direction... Most of these that I've found were actually super premium, super sharp, and extra strong imported hooks from Japan or other far eastern places.  In the effort to make them something special it's too easy to make them brittle - a situation where the hook won't give or distort at all  - instead at a certain point -they just snap.  One particular model did it often enough out on the water that I began doing two different things - first paying much more attention to the fly I had my angler using - to verify that it still had a hookpoint (or anything at all from the barb forward after a pulled hook or getting pulled off of a snag...) and secondly, the moment I found hooks that were simply too brittle - that was the last time I tied up anything with them... at all, no matter how many I had in stock.  Put simply you can catch a lot of fish with a hook that's opened up a bit under a load but a hook that snaps at the barb will have you talking to yourself.. 

I still do make and use fly patterns tied onto "bent" hooks (popularly called bendbacks in the salt) and I do my own bending, using two pairs of pliers (mostly with Mustad 34007 style hooks in various sizes.. Actually bending hooks will give you a very good idea of how durable the hooks you're using can be.  I can say for certain that I've never found any "super premium" hooks that I could bend successfully....   Rather than bend they snap... Not a problem as long as they're strong enough - I just won't use them for bendbacks... I've never had a hook snap in the vise while tying - but I'm not using light wire fragile freshwater hooks at all...  

Here's a pic of one of several bendback patterns I've filled orders for over the years... 

the Big Eye Bendback

Hook:  Mustad 34007, 1/0 with a slight bend 1/4" from the hook eye

Thread;  Danville's flat waxed nylon

Body:   Diamond braid doubled

Wing:  Dyed brown bucktail over,  yellow , over orange

Accent wing:  a single Cree saddle on each side of the wing (Metz # 2 saddles, probably no longer available)

Flash:  Flashabou Accent in pearl - a few strands between each color of the bucktail

Overwing:  six to eight strands of peacock herl

Eyes:  Painted onto built up head (optional).

[Trouttramp 0]

Update:

I contacted the maker of the hooks. Got a VERRY quick response. They want the remaining hooks left in the package and the broken hooks to examine and offered replacements free of charge. Outstanding customer service. 
The manufacturer will stay unnamed, although I believe the hooks to be brittle, I will continue to buy this brand as I have tied flys on hundreds of them.

After the hooks are examined in their lab I requested to be informed on the results. Hope they do..

 

TT

 

 

[skeet3t 0]

I would name the manufacturer so others can watch for the same problem. If others have the same problem, they can be assured of a quick resolution. Quick customer service is a plus!