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Adam Saarinen

Fluorocarbon or Monofiili?

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Is fluorocarbon the choice of leader material in the salt? And are the knots used for fluorocarbon differen't then knots for mono? Does the perfection loop still work? What is the best knot for joining fluorocarbon? Best knot for tying on fly? Thankyou!

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Different answers from different people.

 

Both are ok. Id probably fish mono with a surface fly. Fluoro us a bit tougher and has veen argyed to sink better / faster than mono.

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Each of my fly rods have a mono butt section permanently splice onto the end of the fly line (seven turn nail knot for floating lines - and two nail knots in a row for intermediate lines -one knot won't hold....) Each butt section has surgeon's loop at the bitter end so that you can attach quick change leaders onto that butt section as needed.... Here's the formula for butt sections -- 7wt four feet of 30lb mono, 8wt 4' of 40lb, 9wt 4 1/2' of 40lb, 10wt 5' of 50lb, and finally for big rods (11wt on up), 5 to 6' of 60lb mono. The idea is that the butt section should closely mimic the flexibility of the fly line as you go up in line weight to get the most efficient transfer of power whether it's a short cast or nearly the full line...

 

Now for the tippet end... For general purpose backcountry angling (snook, redfish, trout, snapper, baby tarpon, tripletail, etc) I just loop a four to five foot section of 20lb fluorocarbon to the butt section and do without a bite (or shock) tippet at all. Yes, we lose an occasional good fish - but the greater number of bites more than makes up for it. Yes, you have to cut back and re-tie the moment you see the slightest fray near the fly... It's also a relatively simple matter to add a bite tippet if we start getting into fish that I know are going to wear through that 20lb... for that the quickest and strongest connection is a Slim Beauty (an Australian knot - once learned you can tie it quickly in utter darkness -just by feel - and it's nearly 100% as strong as the line itself, if tied properly.... On the rare occasions when we need a tapered leader then I simply attach a seven or nine foot tapered leader, loop to loop to that same butt section. I was taught to use the old Charles of the Ritz taper formula when tying up my own tapered leaders - and this would probably be mono - not fluoro (but fluoro is probably superior because of it's properties (a bit different from mono...). Years and years ago tapered leaders would be entirely done up with blood knots - but the Slim Beauty (if you can learn to tie it...) is definitely superior in every way....

 

Now for tarpon and other "big fish" leaders.... We stick with the same butt section but use rigged and spooled mono leaders for the tippet, with fluoro shock tippets. The mono of choice for butt sections is Ande or Sufix Superior - the mono for big fish tippets is Mason Hard Nylon... I keep three or four spools of complete heavy tippets ready to use in the following sizes (20lb Mason, 40lb fluoro, 20lb to 60, and 20lb hard Mason to 80lb fluoro, preferring Seaguar or Ande fluoro always for bite tippets... Here's a pic or two of how I'm set up, along with a pic of a Slim Beauty and a heavy leader pair (they're joined by a common bite or shock tippet and are simply looped together with other leader pairs then wound continuously onto a leader spool for convenience). In use the top leader pair is un-spooled then the bite tippet is cut in half leaving a full leader still on the spool and a ready to use heavy tippet. I'm not going to go into the knots used for heavy tippets (big fish leaders) since they're a bit complicated....

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I use seaguar fluro in 20lb and over. For anything finer I stick to maxima or stroft as I've had and seen too many unexplained failures of seaguar in smaller breaking strains.

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Thankyou Everyone! Especially Capt Bob LeMay, that's a lot of good information! Few new knots i'll look up on youtube, i've alway's been a fan of Stroft from Germany & have spools of mono in many sizes for pike leaders & doublehand sink lines! Will buy a few spools of Stroft fluorocarbon, those will be cheaper in the fishing section of the motorparts store or the variety store then the fly shop! The fly shop can sell me a few Stroft fluoro tapered leaders for 6,7,8wt & make my own for 10wt! Not long till my Aussie trip 5or6 weeks, i'll take a 6 & 10wt Hardy Zephrus SWS & leave 7 & 8wt Vision Venus salt rods there for my 4 nephews that live on the coast, get stuff all if you try to sell something! Also Thankyou Dave for putting me intouch with Steve, we've sent many emails & he will be at his holiday home at the same time in the same area & promises a lot of land based salt fishing & even bass from his 2 kayaks!

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I use a loop knot most of the time - it's an improved Homer Rhode loop knot.... Hope there's video of it somewhere since I've never been able to talk anyone through it - you just have to see it done, then do it yourself a time or two....

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I only use fluro for the tippet, usually 20 lb in really clear water or if just looking for trout and reds. I go up to 30 if snook or any toothy fish are around. Also tie a 40lb butt to all my lines and then attach the leader with loop to loop connection using perfection loops. I do the same on the other end with the fluro tippet and leader so I can change out tippet really quick without ever shrinking the leader. I make leaders with sections of 40-30-20 lb mono using uni-knots. I sometimes fish in gin clear water but still have never seen the need for fluro anywhere but the tippet. For tippet to fly I use a loop knot. I use the same knots on fluro as I do on mono, they tie the same.

 

Fluro definitely has its advantages in clear water and I prefer it but I think some people nowadays get a little carried away with how necessary it is. I think some people tend to forget that before fluorocarbon was invented people only used mono in those same gin clear waters and caught the hell out of fish.

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I can't speak of salt water, since I don't fish it. But I had to comment to agree with agn54 that fluorocarbon lines aren't necessary, as far as water clarity goes. (Again, I don't know if it's better in other aspects on salt water)

 

I use mono on my fly rods.

 

I use braid on all my conventional gear. I have fished the back deck with many other anglers and it doesn't seem to make any difference in hit ratios.

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The reason I use fluoro is not for the much advertised visibility factor (most days in the 'Glades the water's dark enough that you could get away with almost anything...). Fluoro does have two properties that make if a pretty good idea.... The first is that any kinks or coils in fluoro come right out if you just stretch it hard and hold it for a moment. The main reason many used fly stretchers years ago for their big fish flies was that we were all using mono and if you didn't stretch it hard (the heavy bite tippet....) and keep it that way it was a problem each day.... With the advent of fluoro, fly stretchers were no longer needed (one less piece of gear on an already crowded skiff....). The second reason I like fluoro (and here we're only talking about leader material - nothing else....) is that it's a bit more abrasion resistant than similar sized mono. I like to do without a bite tippet if possible -and that's where fluoro shines.... Our night trips are great laboratories since we get a lot of bites and tarpon of any size are really hard on leaders... A bite tippet of 30lb mono is so badly shredded that I have to be really careful grabbing it after a 30 minute fight - the same size in 30 fluoro is in much better shape after similar abuse (at least that's what I've found over the years - most nights we'll jump ten or more fish in five hours and get at least two or three to the boat so I get to see those leaders over and over again.)...

 

One other point about fluorocarbon... These days there are lots of fishing lines labeled fluorocarbon. They should have been labeled "son of fluorocarbon", "distant cousin of fluorocarbon", or even "kept in the same box as fluorocarbon"... Fishing lines labeled fluorocarbon are just not the same thing as pure fluorocarbon leader material. Anyone thinking they are is in for a problem. I like Seaguar, Ande, and other outfits that make up decent fluorocarbon leader spools (the Ande is the cheapest I've found). Be a bit cautious about big fly outfits with fluorocarbon leader spools for sale - I've seen a few that were mis-labeled (an 80lb spool that was pretty much 60lb in reality) so you have to be careful if you want the benefits....

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One other thing to consider is the density of the materials. Fluorocarbon sinks whereas mono floats or suspends. For this reason, I know of a lot of guys who use mono tippet for all their topwater flies. Personally, I have never seen much of a difference when using fluoro on topwater but it may make things like lifting the fly out of the water to rest a bit easier since the tippet is not dipping into the water as much.

 

For the shredding of mono, it absolutely can be an issue but like anything else it varies from brand to brand. I regularly fish the creeks and rivers off of Tampa Bay and often use Mason's Hard mono. That stuff can take a beating from big snook's lips and plates, but also from the trees which sadly I cast into rather frequently. I've had days where I caught several larger slot sized snook on the same leader without changing it and it held up. Granted these things aren't nearly as abusive toreadors as huge Tarpon in Government Cut, but they can do some damage.

 

Here is a pretty good comparison of the two: https://www.deneki.com/2014/01/monofilament-or-fluorocarbon/

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