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The best vise ever


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70 replies to this topic

#16 Mark Knapp

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:10 PM

My primary objective of this project is to make as much money for CfR as I can.

 

I've done a lot of thinking on the raffle vs, auction thing and in my experience auctions have made more money with high end collectable items (like knives) than raffles do.

 

In order to have a raffle I would have to be a 501c3 non-profit organization, I am not one.

 

It would be much more preferable to me if someone who really wanted the vise ended up with it than someone who just bought a $5.00 chance on it and didn't even really want "the thing". It wouldn't be right in my mind for someone who won the vise for the price of a five dollar ticket to be able to sell it for what it was really worth.

 

Pulling a raffle ticket at the end of it all is always anti-climactic, the guy won't be at the event and some one will say "We'll call them and let them know they won" A raffle is a limited fund raiser, it can only make the ticket price times as many as you printed or sold. With an auction, the sky is the limit, the vise will sell for how much any two guys are willing to pay for it. And it's exciting.

 

Chug, yes, the vise will be made for a specific purpose. It will be for a trout fly tier. Sizes 12 to 20. I think that will appeal to most tiers. It will be called "The Trout Fly" and have images of trout flies and trout in the damascus.

 

Charlie, it will be tuned and as perfectly accurate as I can make it. It will be a true dead center rotary.

 

So, I'm going to make the base at about 5 pounds, it will have pockets.

 

Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming. How about base size?



#17 DFoster

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:21 PM

Great idea Mark!  Consider stainless or other low maintenance metals.

 

Really looking forward to your "progress" post-  Good luck!


"I fish because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed, or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility, and endless patience".   Robert Traver 1964


#18 tjm

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 01:50 PM

Just because I think Damascus is ugly doesn't mean I wouldn't donate it back to the charity for a redo. You  are correct that an auction will bring in more for a collectable in the right venue.  Like an art show or special fundraiser,  I hope it does well.



#19 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 02:35 PM


 

Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming. How about base size?

 

Seems like 5" x 6" to 6" x 6" is about right.  Height of the jaws over the base pads (lever arm) the width of the base (moment arm) would determine that.  Is the intended tier using 8/0 thread or A+?   You can only put so much torque on 70 denier thread.  Tall vise would need a wider base than a short one.  There is also a reason computer keyboards stay 5" to 6" deep.  That allows you to get close enough and still have room for reaching what is behind it. 


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#20 tjm

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 02:50 PM

I  would have guessed the base needed to be ~5x7 but I like the base to extend past the end of the jaws a bit and that may not be others preference. Height determines the tip over leverage but 5# ought to be untipable, I doubt my maple base weighs over a pound.

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#21 Poopdeck

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 03:48 PM

I just made a new base for my Regal. You are right the original is to small and way to light. It's 5" by 7" 1/2" plate steel that weighs in at a little over 5 lbs. this is my travel vise and the new base does not cause any kind of burden when packing and traveling with it. One thing I added was a post to slip a lamp over so I did not have to carry two heavy bases. I really really like this little upgrade. As far as the hook sizes, I like my Regal, my griffin and my Thompson because I can seemingly put any size hook I want in the jaws and they all hold solid. I never was a fan of vises that require seperate jaws and I see no reason for this other then additional sales.

As far as being a 501C I believe C for R is a 501C organization. I ran a fishing fundraiser for years and simply used the organizations non profit number since every nickel went to the organization.

My mind is a little blown that you believe you can sell the vise at auction for 10 Grand. That seems pie in the sky and unrealistic to me. Perhaps this is because I don't run in the right circles or because I'm not in the business but I just can't wrap my head around this amount for a vise. Don't get me wrong, I hope you get double that but I just can't fathom that price for a vise and wonder if you should temper your expectations a tad.

I'm sure your right and it just me but that really was the first thing that popped into my head when I read it. The other thought I had was maybe I need to step out of my lot in life a little more.

#22 Mark Knapp

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 04:16 PM

tjm, I appreciate that. Not many people would donate it back. These fund raisers are grueling things, we put our hearts and souls into them. I want the person that gets the vise to appreciate it. It's supposed to be a family heirloom kind of thing. Several hundred hours will go into the making of the vise.

 

poopdeck, I was going to ask you because I knew you recently built your own base.Thanks for chiming in. When you get into the collector realm of anything the prices get crazy. This is unexplored territory. I don't know of any vises that have ever been built like the one I'm building and don't know of any like it ever being donated to a cause like this. Think of it like a $75.00 hook or a rare feather, all reason and practicality go out the window. I could be wrong, I could be taking a big risk doing this. I hope not.

 

Thanks to everybody for the input on the base, it is invaluable.

 

The base will be about 5 pounds and 5 by 7 inches in size, it will be damascus with non-glare pockets. The vise will be, by necessity, shiny and flashy. People like things that are shiny and they will pay more for the bling.

 

Now lets talk about the height of the stem from the base. My HMH is a little low, what do you guys prefer?



#23 flytire

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 04:21 PM

renzetti traveler base = 3 7/8 x 5 7/8 inches

 

hmh trv base = 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 inches

 

i tie trout flies so i dont see the need for anything larger. it stays right where i put it


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#24 zip

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 04:21 PM

I'd like to see a a good rotary vice that came with a set of jaws for small flies, set large and a tube fly attachment. What would be really sexy looking is Damascus jaws...drool!
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it. What happens is that you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore."
John Gierach
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Sgt.Steve Bell USMC/Ret
Once a Marine,Always a Marine-Semper Fidelis

#25 flytire

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 04:24 PM

Now lets talk about the height of the stem from the base. My HMH is a little low, what do you guy prefer?

 

make 3 different options

 

6, 7 & 8 inches

 

j-vise and damaseal are the two vises i know that are damascus steel. not that impressive to me


Some of the worst car accidents happen on the showroom floor


#26 Poopdeck

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 06:41 PM

I mainly tie trout flies when going on the road and the light base just didn't cut it. I found myself having to hold the vise or reposition it a lot. My tying style is caveman though. I don't know if this is Damascus or not but I saw a knife made from thousands of fishing hooks and I thought it was nothing short of amazing looking. Possibly I saw it on a particular show you may have heard about but I'm not really sure where I saw it.

Stem height is a tough one with a base. I would simply go with a length that other very expensive vises use. As far as jaws go I really like the Regal vise style. Simple and strong.

#27 flytire

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 06:49 PM

There are times I have to support my left hand on the vise but that's not a pedestal base problem

Some of the worst car accidents happen on the showroom floor


#28 Mark Knapp

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 07:19 PM

My HMH moves around when I tie trout size flies on it but I have a glass top on my desk that I am sure contributes to the problem. Maybe I tie like a caveman too (or maybe like Sasquatch would).

 

j-vise uses Damasteel for the jaws just like the $3,400.00 vise we saw on eBay. Mine will have damascus jaws, stem and base with mokume knobs and maybe ivory accents. With fly tying tools of the same materials. I'm hoping my damascus will be prettier than what we have seen on vises so far.

 

The damascus made from fish hooks is pretty cool. I'm thinking about incorporating it somewhere. The show was "Forged in Fire", I was on that show (maybe you knew that and I just fell for your humor). There's also something we call feather pattern damascus that would fit well in a project like this.

 

I'd rather not make a bunch of options that someone is likely not going to use like three different stems, it takes a full day just to make the damascus for it. I feel better about picking a length that most people could use comfortably. Or make a long one and give people an option of having it shortened to their' preferred length.

 

I could make an extended stem tube on the base and make the stem height adjustable from say six to ten inches.

 

I have a Regal vise too and I really like it. The consensus is leaning toward a rotary though.

 

Thanks for all the input guys, this is great.



#29 Mike West

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 07:46 PM

Not all Damascus steel is pretty...some of it is just butt ugly in my opinion.
I stay away from it.

#30 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 09:42 PM

Most of what we call "Damascus" now is pattern welded steel; this is actually more attractive (IMHO) than the ancient true Damascus.

 

But a bling and shiny vise?  That would be a distraction and eye strain.

 

Folks jump all over themselves for a Lawrence Waldron vise and will throw $4,000 down for one, and he's not producing any more; though HMG has "cloned" the head of one with their TVR model.

 

Perhaps that is a design to examine?  VERY few parts and unique looking (I've seen the jaws in images here so someone must have one).  I guess you could use a gold base to make up for the ease of manufacture.  ;-)


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