I think they are poisonous.
Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com
FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!
If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account
|Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)|
|Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes|
How do I avoid breathing inhead cement vapors?
Posted 21 June 2019 - 04:15 PM
Simple use Loon water based head cement or any water based polyurethane varnish. No fumes. I use Rod Dancer Rod varnish, works great, but it does take about 20 minutes to set up.
Posted 21 June 2019 - 04:51 PM
I think they are poisonous.
It depends on the formulation. Almost all head cement is a formulation of nail polish. For example, Hard as Hull Head Cement is nail polish. It is manufactured by Lacquerite, Inc. for BackCountry Laboratories which is trademark of Prestige Cosmetics. Lacquerite is a major manufacturer of nail polish.
“On Monday, August 30, 1999, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES by PRESTIGE COSMETICS, Deerfield Beach 33442. The USPTO has given the BACKCOUNTRY LABORATORIES trademark serial number of 75787956.”
The ingredients of Hard as Hull are Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, Isopropyl Alcohol, Nitrocellulose, N-butyl Alcohol, and Camphor. Sound familiar? Check it against the Sally Hansen’s Formulation of Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, N-butyl Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, and Nitrocellulose. Hard as Hull has a slightly different order of ingredients and Camphor from Sally Hansens Nail Polish. Nail polishes contain camphor as a plasticizer.
The solvents in Hard as Hull are Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, Isopropyl Alcohol, and N-butyl Alcohol. Since nail salon workers are exposed to nail polish fumes every day, the solvents are safe. Therefore Hard as Hull and Sally Hansens is safe.
Read up on Ethyl Acetate and Butyl Acetate. These are the first 2 components of both Sally Hansen's and Hard as Hull Head Cement. The reason is that both are found naturally in foods and Butyl Acetate ( N-butly Acetate) is even used as a flavoring in food. Notice that acetone or lacquer thinner is NOT an ingredient! Acetone will thin head cement but it is not as safe as the thinners which uses Butyl Acetate and Ethyl Acetate as the first two ingredients.
"Better Living Through Chemistry"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate "Ethyl acetate is used primarily as a solvent and diluent, being favored because of its low cost, low toxicity, and agreeable odor."
https://en.wikipedia...i/Butyl_acetate "Butyl acetate is found in many types of fruit, where along with other chemicals it imparts characteristic flavors and has a sweet smell of banana or apple. It is used as a synthetic fruit flavoring in foods such as candy, ice cream, cheeses, and baked goods. "
Read these posts:
"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy
Posted 21 June 2019 - 11:15 PM
Most of us don't worry about it (in fact you are the first one I've ever heard mention it), girls put the stuff on thier fingernails, all ten of them, a lot more than you will use on a fly and except for being a little flakey at times it doesn't seem to effect them at all. And then, they will do all their toes, and glue on some eye lashes and then get a perm. Don't worry about it.
Posted 22 June 2019 - 05:13 PM
Fly tying cements are the least of what I'm exposed to since I powder coat lead headed jigs by the hundreds (and that's after exposing the raw lead to a propane torch to heat each head almost to the melting point before dipping them into the aerated metallic powder...), and work with epoxies and resins (fiberglass stuff keeping my guide skiff working...) and also use acetone, lacquer thinner and various other solvents while repairing or building fishing rods - and don't forget reel parts dropped into solvent as part of the process of breaking them down and repairing them (at times by the five gallon bucketful from commercial hook and line fishers...). The good news for me is that I long ago quit doing any lead molding work (all of that is farmed out to a big commercial outfit that makes what I need to order..).
All of the above routine was to point out that lots of what we're exposed to isn't particularly good for us - but that doesn't mean you have to hit the California lawyer emergency button... As you can guess I live as far from that state as possible...
I was chased out of the house many years ago and have been doing all my production work - fly tying, lure making, rod and reel repairs as well as rodcrafting new rods in my garage... Here's how I handle the various exposures... I keep the garage door open if at all possible - as well as a side door to attain a crossflow ventilation - then augment that with a small floor fan set up so that it blows from me to where I'm working... At times I'm forced to wear a dust mask - particularly when working with feathers in bulk... Seems I've gotten a mild allergy to the various natural feathers I work with when fly tying, filling orders... It seems to have almost disappeared now that I've given up commercial tying - who knew?
Yes the various chemicals we're exposed to might just have a long term negative effect on us... so you have to evaluate your personal risk and take steps to mitigate it... Of course all of us have to die of something... but it would be better if it's not something we've chosen to bring into our environment...
As a fishing guide, though, my primary environmental hazard is the sun.. Guiding in the tropics (south Florida) entails far to much sun, period. Melanoma is my main enemy - but so far I've only had the much less lethal basal cell skin cancer...
Posted 23 June 2019 - 01:53 AM
Posted 23 June 2019 - 03:49 AM
I think they are poisonous.
You're not breathing enough of it to matter but if you don't like the smell then buy some water based stuff. It's not going to matter to your health though unless you're drinking it. To me fly tying, the smell of wax and of lacquer all go hand in hand, it's familiar and expected. I used to tie flies for three people on a rainy day in a 17 ft camper using head cement or sometimes just wax ( Sometimes I just use wax on the thread for caddis fly heads, it snuggles the deer hair I use down pretty tight).
John 7:38 ESV is about "Rivers of Living Water"
Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:36 AM
X2 flytire that suit should do it
can't argue with SilverCreek when it comes to chemistry.
I suspect nail polish used to be more hazardous than it is now, but think how much of it a professional manicurist must inhale in a year and if it was really bad two things- OSHA would prohibit nail polish in the work place/beauty shops and no one would become a manicurist.
keeping the lid on when not actually using will help with both inhalation and evaporative thickening of the lacquer.
Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:59 AM
Sniffing glue, or like chemicals in nail polish, nail polish remover, and the like, is probably not good for you, let's all agree there lol. Is the water based stuff really any safer or just less smelly?
Unless you are tying 1000s of flies in a small enclosed room, like a closet, then I would think you are ok.
Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:06 PM
Before I even clicked on the thread I knew you would do this.
Posted 23 June 2019 - 12:53 PM
swipe your thread with cobblers wax and a 3-4 turn tightly wrapped whip finish should hold for a long time
The fish care less than we do!
Posted 24 June 2019 - 08:01 AM