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where's the point?


16 replies to this topic

#1 Piker20

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:20 PM

Wondering if folk have found a particular brand of single hook that seems to snap just where the bend straightens into the hook point?
I've had a couple of patterns through swaps that appear to be tied on AJ hooks that suffer this problem. Really annoying as they never seem to hit anything obvious so I'm never sure how many swings go by without a bloody hook on the hook!
I've not had the problem with the cheap(ish) Allen salmon hooks. Or with heavier gauge singles. But the problem hooks seem to be low water fine(ish) gauge. If there is a brand that people notice time and again I'll make a huge side step around buying them.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#2 FlyFishin'Jam

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:30 PM

Yes i seen a batch of aj's do this! Someone mentioned to me it was vice pressure or creating a weak point when you go to crimp barbs. Now i seem to remember Daiichi fixing the issue, not kool tho and frustrating. Has happened to me once so far....but right after the barb when i went to crimp it. Going to try those mcneese blue heron hooks this year.

#3 Piker20

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:33 PM

These aren't crimped so might try that first and it'll flag up a weakness. At least I still have the pattern to copy.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#4 FlyFishin'Jam

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:55 PM

Haha and if it snaps, slide the dressing off the hook and onto a new one (i don't actually think this will work). With the fine wire hooks i have had issues with them straightening, has worried me before, but yes others have had a few issues with certain batches of aj's but you would think being a premium brand name hook it should be indestructable. The ones that go straight on me are the 2131 veverka hook, but with 15lb tippet and cranked down drag.

#5 Piker20

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:18 PM

A hook straightening of bending in a fish or a snag I can kinda live with cause I would check my hook after a hard snag or fight, wouldn't be happy if they straighten in a minnow. But these points just drop off with no obvious dinks. I like the fine wire for penetration but might stick to the heavier gauge ones for shore work. Shame Owner don't make a cutting point spey hook. Their doubles are awesome.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#6 FlyFishin'Jam

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

Here is a pic where the aj hook had a crimp mark flaw under the barb and what happened, not my image as i have had good experience, we got a decent batch i think unless any i sent to you did that?

Same as this?

image.jpg

#7 Piker20

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

Yep just like that or slightly further to the bend. Tonights was one from vicrider and the past ones I can't remember. I'll do the barb crimping before I tie them on and go from there. Or do you think they might survive the barb squash only to break after that? That's probably worse.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#8 outdoorsmanfool

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:41 PM

i have had about 15 hooks snap on me they were a decent brand and never had it happen to me before.. very frustrating. specially when you got a hog on!!



#9 bad fish rising

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

dai-riki streamer hooks & bass bug hooks.
the streamer hook I think is a 700 I broke 2 of them on steelhead on 6lb test.
the bass bug hook touches anything like a rock the hook snaps right off.
never had troubles with little hooks from dai-riki but I quit buying them so I never will
BADFISH RISING

#10 tidewaterfly

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

Bob Clouser in his book, "Clousers Flies", indicates that crimping the barb down with pliers across the hook will often cause that type of failure. Bob states that crimping inline with the hook & using flat jaw pliers so that the jaw surface supports the hook wire is the correct method to prevent fractures. I have broken a few hooks while crimping the barbs, the "wrong" way. I've broken a few with my home made vise grip tying vise, simply from way too much pressure. (Once broke a Mustad 3407 size 7/0. Crushed it! )

 

I've broken a few hitting them on hard surfaces (rip rap or concrete) with arrant casts, but have not had any break otherwise in the manner Jam's showing with the fly he's posted. I don't tie on Salmon fly type hooks too often either. I don't recall ever breaking one or having them break when I have.

 

It's certainly possible to fracture a hook while crimping barbs, but not fail right away. I've had that happen. I had one hook fail as I was starting to sharpen it with a file. I had crimped the barb, using my pliers across the wire, and it broke as I made the first stroke with a file. At least it wasn't after I had tied the fly! sad.png



#11 FlyFishin'Jam

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:11 AM

Oh Piker20, dunno if it was karma or something me saying it had only happened once, but yesterday on a decent fish...The fish did it, we nearly had it finished, was hooked well beautiful fish....ping, oh...whaaat...was a very good dee fly too just judging on how the rear end is torn to pieces. I am going to test a few...

image.jpg

#12 Piker20

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:39 AM

Its a real sod. The ones I've had; as I say have been noticed when I check the fly as a routine, not any obvious snag or knock or reason that I think, Oh that was the time it snapped.

So you don't know if the tip was there when the fish hit or not!!!  Trouble is how do you test without leaving a weakened tip that didn't snap while testing but is now weak????? I've swapped over to Frodin Salar singles for a short time as I trust them and size 11 is plenty for the next few months.


Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#13 sandflyx

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:12 AM

why I like older mustad hooks, all the newer stuff is more brittle. would rather have a hook bend on a snag then snap on a fish. as for sharpness I would rather sharpen every hook than fish a brittle sharp hook.. always crush the barb inline. or grind it off.


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#14 Piker20

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:53 AM

Yep that's starting to be my thoughts. For light wire there are a couple of brands that have proved ok. For the rest I'm going back to the good old days. Bonus is alot of the older model hooks are cheap and in bulk.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#15 Crackaig

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:19 AM

Bad news for you Colin. Salar hooks have been discontinued.

Cheers,

C.


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minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
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