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I seem to be having two major problems when tying and spinning with deer hair. My first problem is when I spin deer hair the end result when I give my popper a haircut is that it doesn't have that tight compact deer hair look unless I cut the hair the extremely close to the shank of the hook. My second problem is when i go to whip finish my fly, I can't seem to keep the flared deer hair out of my finishing knot. Any help will be appreciated!

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James, A couple of questions if that is alright. What kind of thread are you using to spin the deer hair? What size bundles of deer hair are you trying to spin? What kind of hair packer are you using? Finally, this may sound funny, describe the deer hair you are using?

 

Steve

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So for the thread I'm using is 210 denier flat-waxed nylon. I try using thin bundles of hair. I'm improvising for a hair packer with a old pair of pliers. finally my hair is somewhat course. Its medium length, and a little oily. I bought the hair at sportsman warehouse in their deer hair grab bag!

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To get that compact look you have to spin/stack a lot of hair and pack it tight. Make sure you have good quality hair and you clean all the fuzz out. Then make sure you use small clumps. A bunch of small clumps is better that one big one. I have put 28 small clumps on one fly. Then make sure you pack it tight. Use a packer or get really good at packing with your fingers.

 

I keep a piece of a rubber tire tube over the tube on my bobbin. When I'm ready to tie off I just slide it up the thread and over the hook eye. It will hold all those stray hairs back away from the eye. Still a little tricky to pull it back with one hand while trying to perform a one handed whip finish but it get's easier after a few.

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Flat waxed nylon thread is used by alot of tyers for deer hair work. The smallest bundle of hair to use would be around the thickness of a #2 pencil. You can remove the guts of a bic ball point pen and that would make a good hair packer. After you spin the hair, leave the thread hanging where it is, then pack the hair, then while pulling the hair back with your left hand pull straight down with bobbin to tighten the hair more. Then bring the thread to right in front of your packed bundle take 2 turns of thread right there and 1 half hitch. Place a drop of cement there. It will stay there. Once you get to the hook eye or approx 1 hook eye length from it throw 4 or 5 half hitches at that point. Ten trim your bug. When finished place the bug back into the vise and take a piece of plastic (same kind of that materials come in) and poke a hole in the middle and place over the hook eye and up against the deer hair. Reattach your thread like 6/0 or 3/0 of the same color as the deer hair face or whatever color you want and make the head and whip finish. Cut away the plastic and use your head cement.

 

As far as the deer hair is concerned the piece you described might be a challenge to work with. It's hard to say without seeing it.

 

When you have a moment check out Chris Helm's site Whitetail flytying and give him a call. He has great materials and tools.

 

If you like James I have a lot of deer hair. Maybe we can trade.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Steve

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For floating bugs you want good quality deer BELLY hair, not deer body hair. Good sources are Chris Helm/Whitetail Fly Tying, www.feather-craft.com and www.rusuperfly.com.

 

You also need a good hair packer. I used the Brassie hair packer for years, and it worked fine, but just last spring I replaced it with what I consider to be a far superior tool: the SF Fugly Packer, available only at www.rusuperfly.com. A little pricey for a tool at $20, but well worth it if you ask me. I have no affiliation with any of the retailers mentioned above, I just don't hesitate to recommend good stuff when I find it.

 

Another recommendation would be using double-edged razor blades for trimming. They are very thin and flexible so you can flex them into a curved shape as you trim, which makes it much easier to achieve rounded shapes. They're also wicked sharp. :)

 

Of all these things, by far the most important is the hair--you can use whatever tools and techniques you want, if you don't have the right hair, you're not going to get a good, tightly packed bug.

 

Enjoy!

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I am going to disagree with some answers here ... just on the point of the size of the bundles of hair. Smaller bundles mean more thread, which gets in the way of packing. Large bundles, as large as you can handle, will pack up so tight it almost looks solid.

Check out WWW.rusuperfly.com ... Pat Cohen. He's got a couple of videos showing his tying techniques, and he's got a great video for sale that shows all of his tricks. He uses bundles that are thicker than a finger ... which is more than I can handle at this time.

 

Good luck.

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So far all good tips, I agree on the larger size bundles. Spinning hair isn't too difficult, but it should be belly hair, nice a coarse. First clean out all the fuzzy under fur. Hold the hair by the tips, and brush the fuzz out with a mustache comb, or any small comb. I then cut the tips off. Tie in the bundle by the center, with 2 loose wraps, then tighten up with the third wrap. I have several different packers made from old pens. Packing the hair is very important, pinch your thumb and first finger right at the back of the hair, and push all the hair back against your left hand (right hand if your a lefty.) Do this after every couple of bundles.

 

I use a disk of plastic from the inside of an orange juice carton for my hackle or hair guard. Use a heated needle to poke a hoke in the center, and keep it on your bobbin, or you can poke a hole and cut a slit to slide it over the thread later. To separate different color bundles, I use disks cut from milk bottles. These are about an inch or so in diameter, and have a slit cut to the center. Slide them in front of the last bundle, and add a small piece of masking tape to hold them together. Tie in the next color, and spin. Remove the separator disk before packing these bunches.

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My thoughts on bundle size reflected whether or not james has alot of experience working with deer hair. Smaller bunches are easier to work with when you are just starting out.

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Here is a tip to help keep the hair out of the way while tying off. Don't cut off the tips of the hair and tie in the bunch with the tips forward. The long tips are much easier to pull back out of the way.

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comb out ALL the underfur.

 

Doesn't NEED to be belly hair, not by a long shot. Experience will teach you how to identify a good piece of deer hair. You-Tube videos are not experience.

 

PRACTICE tying, packing, and trimming over and over again until you are getting results with which you are satisfied. Just do this on hooks with nothing else- no tails, legs, or anything. Once you are able to do what you want, use those skills to create finished flies.

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I also use a lot of body hair. I see no problem with it if it is good hair........As far as bundle size is concerned I use bunches that are at least pencil size as a minimum. If the bunch gets too small it does not spin well for me. I really like bunches bigger than a pencil. I also tend to not tie completely to the hook eye. I like to leave some hook available to add a wire weed guard at some time in the future if I find that I need one. I sometimes will tie the body and add the tail after the body is complete and I always like to spin on a bare hook shank. If I am going to stack I will do that on a thread base and I am not very good at stacking and don't do it very often.

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Doesn't NEED to be belly hair, not by a long shot.

This is true--I stand corrected. You can pack a tight bug with body hair, but I maintain that it's easier to do with good belly hair. I use a lot of body hair myself (for other types of flies); I buy the Wapsi "Premo" 12" strips, and I have packed floating bugs with it. My experience has been that it takes a LOT more bunches of body hair to achieve a good, tight bug that will float well, because body hair is a lot finer than belly hair.

 

I like the body hair for a type of semi-floating fly that I tie to imitate a small snake - the body hair is great because it soaks up just enough water so that the fly swims with its head just barely breaking the surface film; eventually it will become saturated enough that it swims just under the film, making a sort of bulging disturbance; paired with long saddle hackles for a tail, it looks just like a swimming snake. The bass get on it. :)

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