Fly Rod "Lures"

[thinkingredneck 0]

I have read several old and new books on bass fishing with a fly rod. There seems to be an argument as to what constitutes "fly fishing". When you consider a "pig boat", fly rod jig, Pistol Pete, Coyote, sonic boom, etc, you are , in my opinion, using a lure. Let's be honest, a "Clouser Minnow" is a jig. Jack Ellis even wrote about using small plastic worms on a fly rod. I think when fishing for bass, the old guys had it figured out, use a fly rod to mimic small forage down to about 5 ft. Deeper than that, or for larger offerings, use gear. It just seems to me that this is a different game than cold water or even Bream fishing. Don't get me wrong, I love bass fishing with a fly rod. I guess I don't see a lot of difference between using a small rapala and using a balsa popper, as far as which is "real" fly fishing. I have some heartburn when guys try to create a fly that works the same as a lure. Why not just use a small lure? Does the old fly vs lure argument apply when fishing for Large Mouth Bass?

[josephcsylvia 0]

I personally think that if a guy is using modern fly rods, line, and reels, synthetic material, floating or sinking gels, flurocarbon leaders ect than one should not worry what the fly you tie to the end of your tippet is called.

[mikechell 0]

This discussion comes up about once a year, and usually ends up in a heated debate. But I always feel compelled to voice my opinion on the subject.

Fly fishing ... using the line to "cast" a lure to the target. Doesn't matter what kind of lure it is.

 

Conventional fishing ... using the weight of the lure to get it to the target. Doesn't matter what kind of lure it is.

 

A "fly" is a lure too light (can't overcome air resistance) to cast with conventional gear.

 

A 10 inch long streamer that is nothing but feather, fur and flash, is too light to cast using conventional gear. Thus, it's a "fly".

 

Small diver/floater plugs might be heavy enough to cast with ultra-light conventional gear, but can also be cast with a fly rod.

Thus, it's a "lure".

 

If you use a short length of mono to cast a fly to a close target, you are still using the weight of the fly to get the lure to the target and so, you are not fly fishing.

If you use a fly rod to get a 1 inch Rapala to a target farther away than you can cast it to with ultra-light equipment, you are using the weight of the line to get it that extra distance, you are still fly fishing.

 

State fishing regulations are not "definitions" of fishing styles, only rules, over-written to prevent "loop holes".

[utyer 0]

I agree with both Joseph and Mike, if you are using the weight of the line to load the rod and cast then what you call the item on the end of the leader doesn't really matter. The definition of "fly fishing" is in the method of delivery, not in the object on the end of the line.

 

One can easily cast a hares ear or woolly bugger on conventional tackle by simply using a water filled bubble to load the rod. While you are fishing (in this case) with what are mainstream "flies," you are NOT by definition "fly fishing."

 

The concept of "lure" fishing with a fly rod is not at all new, Heddon was making lures meant to be cast using the weight of the line almost 100 years ago. There were larger versions of the same lure that were designed to be cast using the weight of the lure to load the conventional tackle of those times. There are older examples of "lures" designed and used by fly anglers.

 

George Leonard Herter wrote a very comprehensive book in 1941 called Professional Fly Tying, Spinning and Tackle Making Manual and Manufacturers' Guide.

For over 575 pages he continually blurs the line between what might be called a fly, and what might be considered a lure. In Chapter 14 he writes of Wire Bodies Flies and Streamers. He describes casting these with split-shot or sinkers on a spinning rod, but he still calls them "flies." In Chapter 16, he describes Cork and Plastic Bugs, and calls these "lures."

[Dave G. 0]

I feel that when it takes fly gear to get the bait to the feeding fish, I'm fly fishing because I'm using fly gear. Some lures are too light to cast any respectable distance with conventional spin or bait casting gear ( much as Mike is indicating). That's my personal view, however for years I debated that if even streamers were really flies. Why ? Because beyond the gear used, then really a fly ( to me, I did say to me) is a dressed hook to look like What ?, Well, a fly of course ! Thus I suppose is why some states added the classification Streamer Flies to fly fishing regulations.

 

Some people fish nymphs and streamers using conventional spin gear using a water filled bubble. What kind of fishing are they doing then ? And the State of Maine put in a regulation for this for casting and for trolling in certain waters. As well as casting upon the water with fly gear as a regulation, so in other words you can't use a fly rod and then go trolling with that in those waters. You must cast and retrieve with fly gear for it to be considered fly fishing and meet the "fly fishing only" regulation.. And in the waters with the regulation that you must use artificial flies, these are where you can use a fly on spinning gear. The Moose river has that regulation in mid summer months and then turns over to fly fishing only from Aug 15 through the end of the season ( this time period from the 15th on is when salmon begin to stage up for the spawn). Around Sept 15th they raise river flows as well.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Other than for regulation requirements or practical application, IMO it doesn't matter to me what it's called, fly or lure. When I say practical I mean within the limits of what the rod can handle, as it can be silly what some folks might consider casting as a "fly". I still fish with other tackle, and there are lures I'll use that are better cast with that other tackle. Right tool for the job sort of thing. I fish with Clouser Minnows a lot, and do consider them flies when I'm casting them with a fly rod, but agree they are also a type of "jig" and thus a lure. So what, either way I can cast them with a fly rod & they work. That's all that they need to do for me to consider them a "fly" for fly fishing. Personal opinion, nothing more.

 

Years ago as a kid, I tried some different lures, and baits with my fly rod, as my primary interest was only catching fish & mostly to take home. That's changed over the years, but in that early process I learned a lot about what i could or shouldn't do with that rod. That's help me over the years with other rods I've since added to my arsenal.

 

I still will use such things as spinner flies with some of my fly rods, and primarily for panfish. Again, based on my early years experiences, sometimes a spinner added is a more productive choice. Tom Nixon was a believer in using spinners with his flies sometimes, as it produced, and was a "fly rod" equivalent of spinnerbaits & inline spinner lures that were popular at the time. Is it correct to say he was or wasn't "fly fishing"? Frankly, I don't feel it matters.

 

Personally, I have my own definition of what is "fly fishing", but as long as it's legal, don't care much how others define it. To each their own, and it's not a topic worth getting worked up or heated about.

[josephcsylvia 0]

By the way, it should be pointed out that a fly by definition is a Lure. So it comes down to delivery method.

[tidewaterfly 0]

 

 

By the way, it should be pointed out that a fly by definition is a Lure. So it comes down to delivery method.

 

Great point!

 

I got into a similar discussion years ago and pointed out that "fly" is a specific type of insect group that doesn't include the typical aquatic insects that are commonly imitated with artificial flies, so if using a "fly" that is made to imitate a Mayfly for example, is it still fly fishing? Silly isn't it?

[DrVette 0]

Well let me throw in a ringer...

I turn to a clear bubble(part filled with water for weight) at the end of a tapered line to throw flies on my spinning reel. I still think of it as a bastardized form of fly fishing. I normally only do this when it gets too windy to cast a with a fly rod.

[mikechell 0]

Well let me throw in a ringer...

I turn to a clear bubble(part filled with water for weight) at the end of a tapered line to throw flies on my spinning reel. I still think of it as a bastardized form of fly fishing.

That's not a "ringer" ... it was mention a few posts earlier by utyer.

 

If you're not using a fly rod, you aren't fly fishing. Just because the lure at the end of your line as a fly, the fact that you used a spinning rod and reel means you are "conventional gear fishing".

 

This is one of those topics where I don't understand the mind set of "fly fishing anglers".

Why try to convince yourself (or others) that you're still "fly fishing" when you obviously aren't?

Are fly fishermen so much better, in your mind, that even if your using a spinning outfit to get your fly out there, you have to rationalize that it's still fly fishing?

 

Doesn't that mean that ANYONE who casts a tiny lure behind a bubble on a spinning rod or baitcaster is fly fishing?

 

Honestly, I am not trying to upset anyone ... I am just believe that "fly fishing" needs a "fly rod", a "fly reel", "fly line" and a leader, at least. This is what fly fishing is. It's not the lure on the end of the line, but how you present that lure to the fish.

I fish with spinning gear, with level wind bait-casters, with cane poles and with fly gear. I like all of those methods, in their place, and see no reason to call any of them by the other's "name".

[Bimini15 0]

I agree with the explanation. To me the line is the deciding factor as well.

 

But this is one of those times things when you see language getting in the way. We are calling it FLY fishing, so, as long as you are fishing with a fly, technically, regardless of tackle, you are fly fishing.

 

In other languages, and by now you all know which one I mean, it is also called "whip fishing", or "rat's tail fishing" in reference to the action or the line needed to cast a near weightless lure. No confusion there with any other kind of tackle.

 

By the way, what are other ways to refer to fly fishing in English? There is got to be more than just fly fishing.

[mikechell 0]

What languages do you refer to, Bimini?

 

I've never heard of it as anything other than "fly fishing". I hear people in passing boats saying, "look, he's fly fishing!" I don't think it's got any other names here.

[josephcsylvia 0]

If the fly is the determining factor to some of you guys, then why hate on the tenkara guys lol they are using a fly after all! Lol

[Bimini15 0]

I might have have mentioned Spain and Spanish once or twice in these forums before...

[flytire 0]

If the fly is the determining factor to some of you guys, then why hate on the tenkara guys lol they are using a fly after all! Lol

 

haters are gonna hate if it isnt "fly fishing" per their definition

 

some fly fishermen are so narrow minded that they will not accept any other type of fishing and will usually insult and put down those fishermen who fish differently