Bibbed flies anyone?

[retrocarp 0]

I have been toying with this idea for a few years now and wondered how many others have done the same.

[salmobytes 0]

 

Been working on it for 30 years. I think you need buoyancy at the top rear and weight at the front bottom to keep them from spinning. That's how Rapalas are made. More or less.

 

 

Halfords Ghost

[mikechell 0]

Just FYI ... it's not "bibbed" ... it's "lipped". Lures with lips have been around for as long as lures have been around. They are used for two different purposes ... to make a floating lure dive, or to impart "wobble" ... usually both.

Salmobytes has the basics correct ... the balance of weight cannot be centered on the hook eye. "Rapala" achieves some of this with the weight of the hooks. That little fry of yours looks good, Retro ... and if it dives or wobbles without spinning, it'll fish great.

[retrocarp 0]

FYI in Oz we say Bibbed lures LMAO

and yes if retrieved slow it does dive and wobble ( tank tested)

[mikechell 0]

Ah ... I forgot you're on the other side of the world from me.

[salmobytes 0]

Yes sure (Lures with lips have been around for as long as lures have been around). But what about flies with lips? Chicken lips? How does that work anyway?

[salarfishing 0]

Million Dollar idea right there - perfect it, and you've got a winner!

[salmobytes 0]

Buoyancy at the top rear and weight near the front bottom make it wobble. The lure (oops, fly) lifts up and to the left or right as the water pushes on it. Without the opposing carrot stick forces of buoyancy pitted against weight the fly would turn upside down and plane right up to the surface.

 

With those two counteracting forces, if balanced against each other properly, the lure never quite flips upside down. Instead it oscillates from side to side, digging ever deeper into the water as you pull. Little ones are tricky to balance properly. Big ones are easier to make. I usually knot a small barrel swivel into the leader 18" inches or so up the leader from the flure.

 

I make the bills out of clear plastic vegetable boxes, like tomatoes I buy at Costco. I make the fly with a bill way too big. And then, as a final step, trim the bill slowly to shape with toenail clippers while sitting at the edge of the bathtub. If the lure tracks to the left (instead of straight) trim the right side of the bill.

 

Attachment points lower down on the bill make a deeper diver with a high speed vibration rather than a wider, slower wobble. Attachments higher up on the bill make a shallower diver with a slower, wider side to side action. More weight is one way to fish deep with a wide slow motion wobble, rather than a high speed vibration. Lure flies for lakes require a much bigger lip than those for moving water.

 

 

 

.......a few more Flures. These are all pretty old photos. I need to make some more. Flures and phlotos.

 

==> more flures <==

 

even more <==

 

even more more <==

[Philly 0]

I've done up a few, some worked most didn't. The ones that didn't work had narrow bodies and lips. These are the three most successful ones. I caught bass, sunfish and a couple of trout with them.

 

 

 

 

I think I based these on a lure called the Wiggle Wart. Wide body, wide lip, a bit of weight in the front to get the lip down in the water. Worked best off an intermediate sinking line. In streams they were best retrieved against the current. Maybe I'll put them back in my box this year and see if they still work.

[Fly Samurai 0]

Although a larger version, same concept.

Can be seen in action at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbZZzR2v7rA

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

they will work. IF you are content putting up with the way they cast and the twist they cause while casting.

 

These all have, and forever have had, one basic flaw- they're being pulled through the AIR by the fly line the same way they are going to be pulled through the water. That is opposite (more or less) of how billed/lipped/bibbed lures fly through the air when cast on other tackle. I've fooled with the idea a few times over the years like all of you. While the lures/flies LOOK cool and caught fish, the way they cast ruined it for me.

 

The workable solution IN MY OPINION is to put the diving plane behind the hook eye- sloping back, up, and away rather than forward, down, and toward you (relative to the hook eye). The Dahlberg Diver and Stealth Bomber are the two best examples which come to mind.

 

As much as fly fishing is becoming "mainstream" and "cool", there are differences which make it DIFFERENT than fishing, or at least casting, with other kinds of tackle. Bottom line, it is more fun to fish a Rapala on spinning tackle than it is to fish it on fly tackle.

[salmobytes 0]

RE> "The workable solution IN MY OPINION ...."

 

If you look at the tiny orange colored diver a few posts above, roughly as long as the width of my finger, you'll see it works at you described. And yet it is small and easy to cast with a flyrod. And it drives'em absolutely nuts. Spinning rods are fun. I own a half a dozen and use one at least once or twice each year. Most of the time I find a flyrod in my hand. So when opportunity calls for a diver--perhaps a downstream log jam lie not approachable from anywhere but upstream--I use a flyrod wiggler. All of which is territory not available to most fly fishermen. Because you have to make your own. And know how to do it too. ;=))

[ditz2 0]

In years past I bought a few hard baits that were designed to be used on a fly rod I believe. I never found one that I enjoyed casting. The first I bought was a small fly rod Flat Fish. I have at least 3 different sizes. These were balsa bodied and the smallest had a single hook attached. The next size up has a small treble hook and the third size had a spreader like the bigger sized models with 2 trebles. The smallest was not too bad for casting but it was difficult to recast until the bait was almost fully retrieved. The others were a pain however. More like casting a clouser and tending to foul the trebles. The one with the double trebles was the worst.......Rebel baits also made a small minnow type crank bait a little over an inch long. It had two trebles and I could never get it to track straight but it sure looked like it should be a great smallmouth 'fly'. ....L&S Mirror lure made a very small bait that was a good smallmouth and rockbass bait but was too heavy for the fly rod IMO but was great on UL spinning. I still have 3 or 4 of them in my neglected spinning box for the stream and they have 2 trebles.......There was also a bait called Inch Minnow that had 2 trebles. They were quite expensive as I remember and I don't think I ever bought one.

 

I think what caused all these bait to be uncomfortable to cast was the detail that none had any feathers or hair that would sort of act as sort of a shock absorber as the line began to straighten at the end of the forward and back casts. Most seemed to be light enough except the Mirrolure and it was a little heavy IMO.

 

Back when I was still fishing UL spinning my favorite lures by far was the smallest beetle spin and the Mirrolure.

[mikechell 0]

All of those lures you mentioned, Ditz, are in my spinning tackle box. I don't know if they were made to be used with a fly rod or not, but as you said, they work very well with ultra-light spinning gear.

 

We're getting into a topic that's been in other threads and forums. I, for one, fish with most (artificial throwing) gear, spinning, level wind and fly. I like my "flies" to mimic natural bait found in the area I am fishing. I do not care for flies that mimic artificial baits used with conventional gear. As Ditz mentioned, you can find very small lures designed to be cast with spinning gear ... when did these become so effective as to require mimics in the fly fishing world?

 

Sorry, just lost my mind there, for a second. Tie what you want and enjoy it.

[TheCream 0]

I did a few deer hair versions this past spring. They tracked and worked as intended, I just didn't fish them much.