Can't sit at the vise for more the 30-40 minutes anymore!

[flypops 0]

Hello all,

I've been tying for about 20 years off and on. I don't tie that often much anymore mainly because I can't sit at the vise for more than 30 or 40 minutes before my upper back starts to cramp up so bad I can't stand it. I don't know if it's the height of the table, I tie on a bar/counter but the stool height is fine for anything else I do there, just not tying. I've tried putting a pillow on the stool but that didn't help. Yesterday I took 3 Advil and had a couple of Vodka/Gingers and still no relief.

 

Anybody else had this problem and found a remedy?

 

 

[flytire 0]

i drink at the bar and tie on a table with a comfortable chair at a height that suits my tying

[Stippled Popper 0]

My first thought on something to check would be your posture.

 

Are you sitting completely erect? Or are you hunched over?

 

You don't mention problems with your back when standing.

 

I've lower back issues myself. Sitting is harder on me than either

standing up or lying down. When my back was bothering me

recently and I had an event to prepare for I had to relocate my

tying to the kitchen counter with my vise elevated to a comfortable

height for me to tie standing.

[FlaFly 0]

I had lower back problems for most of my life until I finally got chiropractic attention. Most of all, I learned how to do and not do things like sitting, standing, lifting, etc. Other patients with upper back problems often had such exotic sources as too high a pillow, and so forth. Many chairs are not ergonomically designed (including my dentist's chairs). I'd suggest getting some attention. The things we enjoy (like tying flies, creating art) are too important to let problems take them away.

 

Also, I'd point out that pain killers (including alcoholic ones) don't fix the problem. They just cover them up, possibly allowing them to become worse.

[KOKOEK9 0]

Hi, I have that problem I tie at a desk and sit in a high back desk chair. But I don't tie for long periods any way. plan on 30 min work and quit then or sooner if you need to. Adjust to what is comfortable for you. Tie for short period more often

[J-Kno 0]

i drink at the bar and tie on a table with a comfortable chair at a height that suits my tying

I concur!

[Crackaig 0]

Back problems have been with me for 30+ years now. Mostly lower and middle back. That was until I had a nasty fall on the ice on New Years Eve 2012. I landed very hard on my upper back. Now there isn't a comfortable position, anywhere. I can't lie down for much more than 4 hours. My left arm will not rise close to the horizontal. My legs shake in a spasm when I stand up. My quack says it is nerve damage in my spine and there is nothing that can be done. Despite all this I can tie for hours without the pain you mention. (I have pain all the time, but it does not increase while tying).

 

This is down to the position I have my vice in. First you need a good chair. One you can sit in for as long as you need to. While sitting place your fist under your chin, with your elbow pointing down. The height of your elbow is the height you want your vice jaws at. I'll bet you can't get your vice that low. If your vice is higher than that you are holding your arms up. That is sure to cause stress around the shoulders, back, neck area.

 

If you place your vice on a table low enough to give you this height it will still cause you problems! You will not be able to get your knees under the table so will be reaching forward. The answer is a vice extension for a clamp vice. An "L" shaped bracket that moves the vice out from the table and lowers it. Both Renzetti and Dynaking make them. I'm sure others do as well.

 

The first time I came across this set up it was being used by Chris Helm. I've used it for about 20 years of pain free tying since. I hope it helps you as much as it helps me.

 

Cheers,

C.

[flypops 0]

So then, can you tell me at what height the base of your vise sits relative to your body? For example, does the vise base sit even with your belly, your waist or your sternum? The counter top and the bar stool are correctly matched for one another and I can sit on my laptop at that same counter all day if I choose and not have any issues whatsoever.

[flypops 0]

Thanks Crackaig, this is the kind of information I was looking for. When I get home I'm going to measure as you suggest however I can tell you right away that my vise sits much higher than you describe. I will check into this vise extension you mention.

 

Thanks all.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

As a guy who used to spend hours and hours tying - my lower back became an issue that plagued me and limited my production time. The solution I found was one of those Danish knee chairs (not sure of the correct name but it's an inclined seat without a back that also has a padded area to rest your knees on while seated, working at a desk). For me, the results were amazing and that chair allowed me quite a few years of part time work as a commercial tyer. Some years later I was able to come back to fishing full time out of a bonefish skiff (an old Maverick with no trolling motor -if we're hunting fish I'm up on the platform poling all day). The big surprise was that as long as I regularly poled my skiff I had few, if any, back problems. If I'm off the water for more than a week or two though, that pain will return.

 

I still put a fair amount of time tying at an ordinary office desk (but not nearly as much time as when I was tying for shops...). That old Danish chair has been a blessing for me. Anyone with lower back problems might want to take a look at one since it forces you to sit with your spine properly aligned while tying....

[FlaFly 0]

I think Crackaig has the right idea. I have a kitchen cutting board, about 14 x 20 inches, that I have been known to place in my lap while sitting in my recliner, my vise on top. that puts my hands about 5 or 6 inches above elbow level. Try it! It's very comfortable.

[flytire 0]

So then, can you tell me at what height the base of your vise sits relative to your body? For example, does the vise base sit even with your belly, your waist or your sternum? The counter top and the bar stool are correctly matched for one another and I can sit on my laptop at that same counter all day if I choose and not have any issues whatsoever.

I don't think anybody can tell you in feet and inches what the correct position should be. I found my ideal position by trial and error. My vise is even to slightly lower than my hands. My chair is a desk chair with arms

 

Whatever it is, it is not a position we normally sit in anyways. You need to find that position that is most comfortable for YOU

[mikechell 0]

Just my two cents.

You say you can do anything else in virtually the same position without pain.

Do any of those other things include holding your hands up in front of you? I ask because I sometimes have sharp pains in my upper back, directly between my shoulder blades.. I've never been injured there, nor anywhere else in my back. But I have noticed I can do certain things with my elbows on the table top and NOT have the pain.

I've moved my vise towards the center of the table and tied while resting my elbows on the table ... works wonders to relieve the stress from that area of my back.

[flypops 0]

After getting home and taking another look at my setup it is obvious that the vise is much too high. Like maybe as much as 7 or 8 inches.

[Crackaig 0]

Mike, I suspect that that is similar to some of the oldest pain I get though maybe mine is a little higher, It can feel like someone had stabbed you just to the side of your spine. Something as simple as sneezing can set it off again for weeks. The chair I tie in has arms. The position I described lets me rest my elbows on the chair arms while sitting upright.

 

Strangely enough having to wear glasses while tying has also helped my posture while tying! The position I tie in means that reading glasses are not focused far enough away to use while tying. My tying glasses are the same strength as my reading glasses, but the "optical centres" of the lenses are placed differently to give a focus point further from me than my readers. This means that if I begin to slouch I loose the focus on the vice. Sort of handy, but I'd rather have my eyes back.

 

One thing that always strikes me as strange is the lack of information on this given in fly tying books for beginners.

 

Cheers,

C.