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Beat on Me, Like a 5-year old's rented Drum Kit Challenge

Winged Wet Fly Rio Grande King Dyslexic Rio Grand King Leadbelly Coachman

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27 replies to this topic

#1 Flat Rock native

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:14 PM

Intro-
 
Although I have tied certain fly patterns for many years, I gave up  about 23.5 years ago on trying to tie Winged Wet flies in general, and the Rio Grand King, specifically.  I found that a Trude style better matched my tying ability and fish were indifferent.  I live in Wyoming, I catch a lot of fish, some pretty big ones.  Yet, my failure to set the wings correctly on this style always bothered me. 
 
Back around Thanksgiving Crackaig and flytire provided some excellent advice and guidance on the techniques needed to tie Winged Wet flies.  I made a New Years resolution that I would learn to tie a credible Winged Wet Rio Grand King. 
 
So please review the following pictures and let me know if I can cross this pattern off my to-do lists.  Did I set the wings correctly?
 
Please point out, because I am truly a beginner on these types, what appears to be wrong and how one might fix any deficiencies. Pummel me hard, if you must, I can dish it out- I can take it- I will learn stuff and maybe some less experienced novices will too!  Tell us your solutions, ie ., how you would tie it differently?
 
The Contest and Prize-
 
Look at the four samples I named and provided.  If you are the first to do so - and can label each fly , numbers 1 through 4 in the correct order that I actually tied them,  I will buy you one of Al and Gretchen Beatty's new e-books on Amazon.  While they are free to Prime Members, the e-book prices range from $4.99 to $7.99.  I think they are a tremendous, cost effective  resource to new and old tiers alike.  Beginners- these e-books will expand your repertoire immediately and save you unneeded expenses for some tools, materials, and instructional manuals. Al and Gretchen also will give you some very practical work-arounds and material substitutions that will save you a bunch of hard earned money.  The Beatty's are friends of this forum and have been writing and teaching fly tiers for many years.  Hope they plan to continue!  All entries must be received no later than March 31, 2017 at 1159 PM, MDT.
 
Next resolution-
 
 
My St. Patrick's  Day resolution is to tie a Wonder Wing Adams.  These flies are amazing to look at and will fish most trout waters.  Al has done a You Tube video that you can also view, if you want to download the e-book on these Wonder Wing patterns.  I look forward to comparing your work to mine.  Post your flies in this thread.  I will have mine completed before March 17 celebrations start.  I am confident that I will fulfill my latest resolution to be a more practical and versatile tyer in 2017.
 
Contest Answer Sheet-
 
So here are the four Winged Wets I tied and named; and left to right A through D.  Which one did I tie first, second, third, or fourth?
 
_____A. Leadbelly Coachman
 
_____B. Dyslexic Rio Grande King
 
_____C. Rio Grande King
 
_____D. Double Wing Rio Grande King

Attached Files


Edited by Flat Rock native, 24 March 2017 - 05:37 PM.

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#2 Flat Rock native

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:42 PM

My matched White Duck quills may be over 25 years old.  Does anyone know of methods to make them more usable?  Can you steam or iron or press the curled, folded, and dog-eared quills to make them easier to use on my next sets? 

 

These were hard to match up and marry!  Should I just throw them out and spend $5 or thereabouts, to replace them?


Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#3 shoebop

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:49 PM

Yes to steaming them. Just be careful.


Shoebop

#4 mikechell

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:17 PM

FRn ... just remembering other threads, here.  I have no experience reviving old feathers and furs.

But, it's been stated that hair conditioner works to restore some of the usability.


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#5 Flat Rock native

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:23 PM

FRn ... just remembering other threads, here.  I have no experience reviving old feathers and furs.
But, it's been stated that hair conditioner works to restore some of the usability.

Thank you, I think I have little to lose and 5 bucks to gain if I can re-cycle some quills.

Yes to steaming them. Just be careful.

Is a teapot a good way to direct steam at the worst areas? Would a pan work better to bathe each in a little cloud of vapor? Thanks.

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#6 shoebop

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:43 AM

Try a steam iron. Place the feather(s) under a damp cloth a gently heat it up and checking that the fibers are laying the way you want them to  I just did this with a small patch of grizzly hen feathers that were badly curled. They straightened right out.


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#7 Flat Rock native

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:52 AM

Bumping OP and thanks Shoe!


Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#8 phg

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

The steam from a tea kettle should work perfectly, just be careful to keep your fingers out of the way.  Steam scalds are nothing to take lightly.

 

I would say buy new feathers.  There for a while, quality matched duck quills were hard to find, but Spirit River is doing a good job.

 

As for critique, all your wings are way too long.  #3 is the only one that comes close.  Check the Ray Bergman collection on Hatches to see good examples of how thy should look.  Don Bastian is one of the best practitioners of the craft.  He also has the photos on his personal WEB site.  Worth checking out.

 

Wet fly wings aren't really hard to do, but you aren't going to get them right on your first few tries.  Don usually mounts his wings with the tips up and out.  I was taught to do them down and in, but now days tend to do them Don's way, because that's what people want to see. 

 

This article from Hatches Magazine is a good tutorial on tying a classic wet fly: http://hatchesmagazi...-by-john-mccoy/



#9 Dave G.

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:28 PM

While you are relearning shortening the feather up ( you seem to be getting the pairs good at least on two), also move them forward on the hook shank and shorten the heads up too.

 

As you said though, the fish won't care.

 

Oh and since you are getting Amazon books on free prime there is a wet fly book you can download to your Kindle or what ever you have. I'll PM you the name or edit this post so others can see it too ( my Kindle isn't on or in front of me presently).


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#10 Philly

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:47 PM

Is this a trick quiz?  I'm only seeing three pictures.  The Rio Grande King is the third one.  I didn't know Leadbelly had a fly named after him.  Lead Wing Coachman, definitely not in the pictures.  As pointed out wings are too long. Dredging up memories of my beginner fly tying classes where they made us tie wet wing flies,  the wings shouldn't extend beyond the hook bend.   The throat hackle is a bit long.  Usually it should be just to the hook point.  The heads definitely need to be smaller, not sure what size thread you're using but you may want to go down to a smaller size, say 8/0.  You're not going to be wrapping down hard tying these and the finer thread would produce a smoother head.  I doubt the fish care, so they should catch you fish as is.


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#11 Flat Rock native

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:38 PM

Bumping.  Updated contest  instructions!  Thank you Dave G!...  I will check out that resource!
 
Man, you can't get anything past dem Philly guys.  I took one photo, the Double Wing, down to replace with a better picture.  Back up now.
 
Note-  This is working out better than I hoped,  I expected comments such as:".. the only way to IMPROVE the appearance of those flies is to take even worse photos, your tying skills are hopeless, take up golf or something..."  of course vicrider and saltybum have not chimed in yet, and Chell is just setting me up for a zinger by being helpful.
 
Come on, folks you are not trying hard enough, I bet I can point out 7-11 more than likely mistakes, which have not yet even been mentioned.. 

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#12 Flat Rock native

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:29 PM

I recommend the Wonder Wings e-book to the contest winner:

 

 

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Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

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Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#13 ev8d

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 11:23 PM

winged wets is something i've wanted to try ever since i first saw one a few years ago, but one video i watched somewhere or an article i read kept talking about how hard it was to get a nice matched pair of wings so i didn't ever bother. now that phg says spirit river is doing it right and you are trying again after a couple decades i may have to give it a try, kinda inspiring me to get at it myself.

 

not knowing much about winged wets other than what i've seen others tie, to me they look more like clumps of feather barbs but i'm sure that's due to the old product you used. i'd agree with whats been said already. that your heads are too big and the wings too long for sure on B & D. for A & C, i've seen lots of others tied with their wings about that long. maybe it's personal preference like most things in fly tying? in that case, all of them are fine and i'm sure would fish just fine. you have to start somewhere to get good at anything and figure out what you like and what works.

 

my contest guess, based mostly on the length of your wings. i figured maybe it was something you caught and tried to work on on each new fly you tied

 

___3__A. Leadbelly Coachman

 

___1__B. Dyslexic Rio Grande King

 

___4__C. Rio Grande King
 

___2__D. Double Wing Rio Grande King

 

 

 

i really like the wonder wing that you tied in your last post



#14 Flat Rock native

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

winged wets is something i've wanted to try ever since i first saw one a few years ago, but one video i watched somewhere or an article i read kept talking about how hard it was to get a nice matched pair of wings so i didn't ever bother. now that phg says spirit river is doing it right and you are trying again after a couple decades i may have to give it a try, kinda inspiring me to get at it myself.
 
not knowing much about winged wets other than what i've seen others tie, to me they look more like clumps of feather barbs but i'm sure that's due to the old product you used. i'd agree with whats been said already. that your heads are too big and the wings too long for sure on B & D. for A & C, i've seen lots of others tied with their wings about that long. maybe it's personal preference like most things in fly tying? in that case, all of them are fine and i'm sure would fish just fine. you have to start somewhere to get good at anything and figure out what you like and what works.
 
my contest guess, based mostly on the length of your wings. i figured maybe it was something you caught and tried to work on on each new fly you tied
 
___3__A. Leadbelly Coachman
 
___1__B. Dyslexic Rio Grande King
 
___4__C. Rio Grande King
 
___2__D. Double Wing Rio Grande King
 
 
 
i really like the wonder wing that you tied in your last post


Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#15 Flat Rock native

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:25 AM

ev8d, if you search for a thread called Best Feathers for Winged Wets there is excellent commentary, cites to videos, and re-nowned experts providing guidance on techniques and materials. The OP was tying some really nice examples by the time the thread slowed to a stop. Thanks for posting.

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Winged Wet Fly, Rio Grande King, Dyslexic Rio Grand King, Leadbelly Coachman