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Fly Line Noise


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34 replies to this topic

#16 Capt Bob LeMay

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 12:22 PM

Boy.. you're hitting all the high spots... right on!

 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that two things can give you an advantage as far as an ability to approach fish quietly and then do an equally quiet presentation when working out of a skiff... With my noisy old Maverick (dry riding, hard chined skiffs can be noisy with hull slap when you're poling them - unless you pole directly down wind...) I learned the hard way that, if possible, to get my angler out of the skiff and have him (or her) wade up to big tailing bonefish (the kind that are so big they need license plates...all those years ago).  Wading quietly takes your hull out of the equation as far as noise goes... but does reduce your mobility and much lower height when wading in the water greatly narrows down your "window" to be able to spot a fish that isn't waving a tail (or fin) at you...

 

The second item is something most of us never think of and  that is the sound the fly line and fly make when landing on the water after that great cast (us salty types are forever trying to reach fish that most freshwater anglers wouldn't even consider casting at... it just goes with the territory...).  The easiest way I've found to reduce that line slap is to simply go down one or two sizes with your gear (and accepting that you might just be really handicapping yourself).  There are days and situations where I want my angler using a 10wt rod instead of the standard 12wt when sightfishing big laid up tarpon... You really do want the big rod for fighting a big fish - but sometimes a lighter rod will get the bite when the heavier rod just is too noticeable.. If that makes any sense at all.... And of course with the lighter rod comes a smaller fly - and a lighter weight leader. 


Tight lines Bob LeMay (954) 435-5666

#17 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 01:37 PM

Here it is. http://www.flytyingf...041#entry750788

 

The sound of the line slipping through my fingers is being transmitted down the line to the camera and since it is, I am assuming that it is also being transmitted to the water.

 

 

 

The video is almost 40 minutes long. When does the noise happen?


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#18 Mark Knapp

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:00 PM

 

Here it is. http://www.flytyingf...041#entry750788

 

The sound of the line slipping through my fingers is being transmitted down the line to the camera and since it is, I am assuming that it is also being transmitted to the water.

 

 

 

The video is almost 40 minutes long. When does the noise happen?

 

At 13;22 to 13;56 and 26;30 to 26;46



#19 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 05:32 PM

 

 

Here it is. http://www.flytyingf...041#entry750788

 

The sound of the line slipping through my fingers is being transmitted down the line to the camera and since it is, I am assuming that it is also being transmitted to the water.

 

 

 

The video is almost 40 minutes long. When does the noise happen?

 

At 13;22 to 13;56 and 26;30 to 26;46

 

 

You call the video camera a "Float Cam" at 13:00. I hear the noise which sounds like someone groaning but is the video from a floating camera?


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#20 Mark Knapp

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 06:55 PM

Yes the camera is on the fly line. You can see the fish that I am pulling in, the groaning noise you hear is the fly line sliding though my fingers as I strip the line through my fingers.



#21 redietz

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 08:27 PM

Back in the 1830's, Alfred Ronalds, author of The Fly Fisher's Entomology, did an experiment about how sound affects fish.  He had a fish observation shack build out over a river through which he could feed live insects into the stream without being seen (used for a number of other observations as well.)  He had friend stand on the side of the shack away from the river and repeatedly fire a shotgun into the air.  The fish weren't in the least bothered, because that even that much noise in the air doesn't carry into the water.  I seriously doubt that line noise or a click and prawl reel would do so either.

 

OTOH, if he trod heavily on the floor of his shack, the fish would instantly scatter, since the low frequency vibrations were being directly transmitted into the water.


Bob


#22 Mark Knapp

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 09:22 PM

You understand that we are talking about sound that is already in the water. I'm not saying it effects the fish in any way. I'm only saying that the sound IS IN the water.



#23 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 09:32 PM

Yes the camera is on the fly line. You can see the fish that I am pulling in, the groaning noise you hear is the fly line sliding though my fingers as I strip the line through my fingers.

 

Mark,

 

My concern is that if the camera is on the line and the line is making noise, the noise in the video is NOT transmitted through the water. The line is attached to the camera, and since the camera floats, there must be a ring or something the fly line goes through. If that is true, then the line rubs on the ring as the fish takes line and.or as you bring line in. Is suspect that it is that rubbing that is heard.


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#24 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 09:50 PM

Thanks for weighing in. Agreed, normal sound traveling just through the air is not likely to transfer enough energy past the water surface to be "heard".  I say normal because some energy waves are powerful enough to be both heard and "felt" through the air itself, an example would be thunder or an explosion (not on the ground) can have enough energy for a transfer.  I've personally heard thunder underwater in a pool, so no boat or other object to transfer the sound.  

 

Swamp

 

I think that the thunder entered the pool, not from the water, but from the concrete in which the pool was located. Sound can be transmitted to and through solids especially low frequency sound. thunder is low frequency.

 

Ever hear a car with heavy bass coming down the highway? You can feel that bass in your body,


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#25 tjm

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 10:07 PM

Noise in the air and reflectivity  of dissimilar fluids/mediums really has nothing to do with the line in the water transmitting sound/vibration  directly to the the water. It is in essence a string telephone, the vibrations would be attenuated by distance and dissipated by a slack line. If the line was a metal rod we'd have no questions that it could vibrate the water when we vibrated it.I think that if the click of the reel is sufficient to vibrate the line that vibration should be transmitted to the fly and the surrounding water, surely the vibrations of the guides on the line must travel down it. I think that is exactly what happens when a angler shakes the rod as a retrieve is made the vibrations of the line at the entry to the water are passed down to the bait.



#26 tjm

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 10:10 PM

 

in the camera that's 100 feet down.



#27 Swamp Fly

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 12:04 AM

Silver:  You may be correct about that, but I don't know one way or another.  I guess it just depends on how much energy there is involved and if it can still be considered audible sound or not. Throw enough energy at something and even the best insulators fail.  Yeah, that heavy bass is something that really triggers me.  I can't begin to describe how unpleasant I find it to be, it gets to the point that I wonder if there is something "wrong" with me physiologically. If I'm stopped at a traffic light I just want to get out of my car and walk away.

 

Tjm: Yes I agree.  If you strip hard I wonder if the fly will anchor the line enough to let it conduct till it slackens.  Are you talking about wiggling the rod to impart action on the fly?

 

Swamp



#28 Mark Knapp

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 01:42 AM

Mark,

 

My concern is that if the camera is on the line and the line is making noise, the noise in the video is NOT transmitted through the water. The line is attached to the camera, and since the camera floats, there must be a ring or something the fly line goes through. If that is true, then the line rubs on the ring as the fish takes line and.or as you bring line in. Is suspect that it is that rubbing that is heard.

 

 

 

Silver, I believe you are right in that the noise is not transmitted through the water to the camera, the noise is being transmitted though the line to the camera (for sure) and to the water (I suspect) I must assume that fish can sense vibrations better than my camera can, so they must be able to pick up the sounds that my camera can.

 

The fly line is attached to the center of the back of the camera so that it will face directly away from me when it is pulled in. The line that the fish is on (via a nymph that he bit on) is attached to the middle of the front of the camera so that the fish will appear in the middle of the field of view of the camera. A simpler way to put it is, the camera is fastened in line. There is no ring for the line to slide through. The sound is the sound of the line rubbing against my index finger of my right hand as I strip it through the bend in my finger with my left hand.



#29 Mark Knapp

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 01:44 AM

Noise in the air and reflectivity  of dissimilar fluids/mediums really has nothing to do with the line in the water transmitting sound/vibration  directly to the the water. It is in essence a string telephone, the vibrations would be attenuated by distance and dissipated by a slack line. If the line was a metal rod we'd have no questions that it could vibrate the water when we vibrated it.I think that if the click of the reel is sufficient to vibrate the line that vibration should be transmitted to the fly and the surrounding water, surely the vibrations of the guides on the line must travel down it. I think that is exactly what happens when a angler shakes the rod as a retrieve is made the vibrations of the line at the entry to the water are passed down to the bait.

Yes



#30 Mark Knapp

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 01:48 AM

 

 

in the camera that's 100 feet down.

 

Yes, in another video, where I am deep sea fishing with either fly gear or conventional ( I don't remember now, I have hundreds of hours of video to go through), the camera (that is on a slider in this case, and resting on a stop just above the fly or lure) is picking up the indisputable sound of a clicking real 100 feet above in the boat.