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First stab at Materials...


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49 replies to this topic

#31 rstaight

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 03:37 AM

You are off to good start. Anything you tie will be fishable. I just call them cripples.

I got started with tying classes. My first fly was a wooly bugger. It is horriable, but it still rides along in the fly box.

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.  Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick F. McManus


#32 CasualAngler

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 11:28 AM

It hit me this morning @ 0300. Woke me up, actually. UTC is Floss, isn't it?

Oh, I don't know... LOL

:P

#33 Tom Cummings

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 01:46 PM

UTC does floss but thread as well. They do lead free wire wire and much more. Some like thread that lays like floss some dont. Look at denier rates to determine if it can do what you want. 70 is for small flies 140 is norm sized. I use the 6/0 8/0 12/0 and so on for my flies.

#34 chugbug27

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:37 PM

On the partridge, all you're looking for is feathers that have a nice group of feathers at the top. The lower fluff gets removed even on the most perfect partridge feathers. By nice I mean mostly feathers that are not damaged
cb27

#35 CasualAngler

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:34 PM

Here's my 3rd try. The hackle looks better, even if it looks a little long.


Hook: TMC 3761 #12
Body: UTC 70 denier Black
Hackle: Red Grizzly (long feather from the center of the patch)

Getting the UTC thread issue under control, and have learnt the differences in denier, thanks to Tom. I did buy some UNI 6/0 in Black, just to have on hand.

Please offer any Comments; they're welcome, & appreciated!

Alan :D

Attached File  20180918_200949.jpg   46.68KB   0 downloads

#36 tjm

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:51 PM

I like the first one best.



#37 CasualAngler

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 10:19 PM

I like the first one best.


What did you like about it? Be specific; it'll help immensely!

Alan :D

#38 tjm

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:37 AM

I favor rough bodies and sparse hackle, that doesn't mean anything except that I like it. I also like the angle of the hackle better on that fly. It looks like my favorite spiders..I'm not a great fan of the rear facing hackle.

 

They will all catch fish and as you said your thread work is better on #3 and it looks more like USA Tenkara, with the radically reversed hackle, the flies that got you interested. So keep at it and tie to suit you not me. The reversed hackle is fine for what is intended for, dapping with a long rod.

 

I did note  that on this site there are ~50 flies from 12 or so areas of Japan and of all 50 only 6-7 have the reversed hackle. The rest could be from Briton in years gone by. http://www.hi-ho.ne....ng/tenkara.html

The history he gives of the fly fishing in Japan also dates to early British contact.



#39 rstaight

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:40 AM

Looking good. I'm not a fan of tenkara flies. Don't hate em, just not a fan.

That being said, you have a good base for some conventional soft hackles.

Coming along nice. The 2 biggest things for me at least are proportion and thread control. Always working on proportion.

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.  Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick F. McManus


#40 mikechell

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:55 AM

I'd recommend leaving the hackle off.  Not for the fly ... since I'll also recommend that you practice, perhaps cutting the thread off and using the same hook over and over again.

Get the thread under control.  Your bodies are 1) inconsistent, ... 2) rough and ... 3) not smoothly tapered.

 

Just wrap bodies for a few times, until you can consistently duplicate the same look over and over.

 

There's plenty of examples on the "monthly flies from the bench" threads, of what truly good bodies should look like.


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#41 chugbug27

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:17 AM

It looks to me like you are tying what this guy (Jason Klass) calls the "Dr Ishigaki dry/wet fly."
https://tenkaratalk....-tenkara-flies/

Thread selection - uni thread will get you that look, UTC will take more thread to build up a body and it will leave you with a smooth shiny surface instead of a rough segmented surface.

Body shape - Your first tie had a much better shape. To build a body like this guy does on what he calls the Dr Ishigaki dry/wet, you lay down touching turns all the way down, then come back up, then go maybe 4/5 down, back up, maybe 3/5 down, back up, maybe 2/5 down, back up, maybe 1/5 down, back up, done. But examine the shape as you tie it and vary these dimensions to get the actual shape you want. Always touching turns. Unwind as you tie if you overlap.

Hackle selection - Your hackles may be a little long. This guy ties a #14 hook with a #14 feather. On your Tiemcos that means the barb length of the feathers is 1.5 times the width of the hook gap. You can measure by gently pulling the feather on the hook shank (before tearing it off the pelt) to eyeball it.

Hackle winding - I can't tell exactly but it looks like your hackle on #3 may be twisting as you wind it so that some feathers face one way, some the other. It may not be twisted, though, but rather only bunched, I can't tell.

Binding down the rooster hackle to get it to sweep forward - that's the only way I can think of to get that forward sweep with a rooster hackle, and that's what the guy Klass does for the "Dr Ishigaki dry/wet". It results in a somewhat bunchy looking hackle. The traditional reverse hackles I've seen elsewhere that have that forward sweep are tied with hen pheasant, not rooster chicken. The traditional reverse hackles tied with rooster that I've seen (and again, I'm no expert) don't sweep forward; the reverse tie there is more subtle. That's because rooster barbs are hard and smooth, hen soft and webby. Try a reverse tie with your partridge (which is soft and webby, though it's not hen pheasant) and you'll see the difference.

FYI here's an interview with Dr Ishigaki, by another guy (not Klass)

https://www.tenkarau...shigaki-sensei/

And here's a video of Dr Ishigaki tying his fly with that same interviewer

https://www.tenkarau...aniel-galhardo/

Again, I'm no expert. I did find a blog for you that has what seems to be a great Yenkara how-to tying resource...

https://www.tenkarau...ara-flies-blog/
cb27

#42 CasualAngler

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for the replies!

I tied # 3 and two others last night while listening to the Baseball game. Perhaps my enthusiasm got the better of me, and I rushed through this batch.

It would behoove me to follow Mike's advice, & practice wrapping for a bit, to become more consistent.

I wish I could say my hackle skills are getting better; maybe they're not. Still having issues with choosing the right feather length & type, and wrapping as we'll. More work required...

CB-- Yes, I'm trying to replicate the Ishigaki as shown by Jason Klass, & other "basic" styles. Thanks for the Links, too!

Like I said before, I need to practice more. Hen pheasant feathers go on the List.

Your responses are most appreciated. Sorry if I seem to be rushing things.

Alan :o

#43 Flicted

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:10 AM

If you strive for perfection, you will find that you will tie more efficiently and more consistent over time.  But unless you are tying show flies, don't throw those away.  They will fish.  As stated before, just like in the animal kingdom, a crippled insect is more likely to be eaten than a perfectly healthy insect that may escape.  I'm not saying to try and make your flies imperfect, but put those first tries in your flybox and use them.



#44 CasualAngler

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:46 PM

A wrap critique, please...

TMC 2457 #12
UTC 140 Yellow
4 wraps back & forth.

Thanks to all for the suggestions!

:D

Attached File  20180919_203717.jpg   40.57KB   0 downloads

#45 mikechell

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 10:04 PM

You let the thread twist.  Hence, you get the "rope" look at the back of the hook.  If you're looking for a segmented body, that's not a bad thing. 

If you want a smooth body, you'll need to stop and untwist the thread.  For every wrap, the bobbin will need to spin one rotation.

If you watch the thread, as it lays out on the hook, you can tell when the twist actually starts to show up.  About 6 wraps or so, then you need to let the bobbin hang and spin it opposite the twist.

 

 


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis