hook questions

[sammothner 0]

i have been tying for a few months or so now, and have gotten really good. (selling to friends and local shops) the different hook numbers from different makers confuse me. can someone please tell me what the standard sizes are( standard, 1x long 2x long 3x long dry and nymph) for the different makers (specifically mustad, tiemco, and saber if possable). a chart would be nice. also will 1x long work fine for most drys and nymphs instead of standard length? i wanted to get packs that i could use for both so it would be cheaper.

Thanks, Sam

[JSzymczyk 0]

Check the manufacturer's websites for charts.

 

There are only rough "standards" between hook makers.

 

You can tie anything you want on any hook, it's up to you. There are no laws to break.

 

It's great you've gotten really good after tying for a few months.

[sammothner 0]

Check the manufacturer's websites for charts.

 

There are only rough "standards" between hook makers.

 

You can tie anything you want on any hook, it's up to you. There are no laws to break.

 

It's great you've gotten really good after tying for a few months.

thanks. i try to tie every day. i have gone through hundreds maybe thousands of hooks and probably 5 fly boxes. will dry flies (adams for example) look almost the same when tied on a 1x long hook as opposed to a standard shank? also nymphs (phesant tail for example) look almost the same?

[sammothner 0]

also what length hook should i use for soft hackle? those work REALLY well where i fish

[Philly 0]

For dry flies, it would depend on the size of the insect you're trying to match. For the smaller ones you'd probably want to stick with the standard shank hook. When you get into the larger insects, like drakes and hexes you would want to look at the 1xl or larger. If you have the proportions down for the dries down for the standard shank use the same proportions on the longer shank. For example, on the the dries if the wings and thorax are 1/3 the shank and the body 2/3 of the shank. Apply the same proportions to the longer shank. Same would apply to the nymphs, just make sure the body and thorax thickness match the length or you'll end up with a long skinny fly.

I use 1xl for my soft hackles. Just a matter of adjusting the proportions to the hook size and length.

[utyer 0]

Most typical soft hackle are tied on a standard length hook. Most have a shorter body, with the body ending over the point not further back over the barb.

 

There are not industry wide "standards" on what makes a standard length hook or a 1, 2, 3, or 4XL. Its up to the manufacturer to determine what length to use as a "standard" shank length for a given size. The size is based on the gook gap or distance from the shank down to the point. Even the size isn't standardized across all manufacturers. Sizes run from the small 32, all the way up to size 1. There are larger sizes, and they use an ought number after the numeral as in 1/0, 2/0 up to 12/0 and larger. The smaller size numbers run consecutively from 32 to 1, but most hooks are manufactured in either even number sizes or odd number sizes. Most hooks are made in the even number sizes like 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20... there are a few models that are made in odd number steps like 3, 5, 7, 9, 11.... A model number is simply a number any manufacturer wants to use for a certain configuration.

 

For instance, a Mustad 94840, Diaiichi 1170, and Tiemco 5210 are "equivalent hooks. They are all standard length standard wire hooks, but remember each manufacturer decides just how thick is a standard wire for any given size would be and how long the shank would be. These three hooks are very similar, but there will be minute differences in the three hooks. Fortunately, most manufacturers are very close to each other in hook sizing, and shank lengths.

 

The designations for X Long, and X Short mean that for that manufacturer a 1 XL has a shank one size longer, and this includes the missing odd or even sizes. So a size 10 1XL has a shank length of a size 9 hook (even if that sizes isn't made.) A 1 XS is a given size with a shank one size shorter.

 

Wire sizes that vary from standard thickness for a given hook, are designated as XH extra heavy or XF extra fine. A size 10 2XH hook will be on a wire that would be standard size for a hook two hook sizes bigger or a size 8 wire on a size 10 gap.

 

There are many other factors to consider as well. Shape of the shank straight, natural bend, hump shanks, continuous bends, etc. Point configurations, and the shape of the bend can be different. Then there are several different finishes. Most fresh water hooks are "bronzed." But if you compare bronzed hooks from different makers, you can see a difference in color.

 

There are dozens of comparison charts that can be found that give you equivalent hooks from different makers. I have just linked to one, but a search should turn up dozens more.

 

If you tie a fly (Adams) on a size 12 standard length hook and then on a size 12-1XL hook, they will be very similar, but the hook differences will alter the make up of the fly. The body will be just a tiny bit longer, on the 1XL shank, and since the wing and tail should be equal to the body, they will also be longer. But the hackle would be sized on the gap which would be the same in both flies, so the longer hook would have a hackle that if sized according to the hook gap would appear to be too short. There may be some difference in the weight of the wire. So the fly on the 1 XL hook may not float quite as well. You could of course adjust the pattern to compensate for the different hooks.

 

Most of the 1XL hooks I have seen are meant for nymphs and wet flies, so the wire could be a tiny bit heavier than a dry fly model hook. There are dry fly hooks in Standard, 2XL, and 1SX shank lengths. Just to confuse you even further, there are some "wide gap" hooks with a wider gap than would be normal for the shank length.

 

While there are "no rules," many people expect certain types of flies on certain types of hooks. Some flies just look better tied on a particular hook style.

[add147 0]

Sam,

Post some pictures of your flies if you don't mind.

[YosemiteSam 0]

utyer, that was very informative. Thank you.

[Quinn NH 0]

I have the book "Hooks for the Fly" by William Schmidt and it has descriptions and cross-reference charts for most major hook manufacturers. It's been a big help to me and I would strongly suggest getting your hands on a copy.

 

Quinn

[sammothner 0]

Sam,

Post some pictures of your flies if you don't mind.

i will post some pictures of some dries and nymphs when i get home from school.

[sammothner 0]

heres a chaimera fly i tied earlier this week

[cheech 0]

That is a Curtis Fry pattern right? His flies pretty much don't work

[Prosopium w. 0]

Personally, I steer away from 1x fine wire in long-shanked models (e.g. 1x fine 1x long, 1x fine 2x long, etc). They simply bend too easily for my tastes, a consequence of increased leverage due to shank length. Although in the larger sizes (say 14+) they are ok for dries, but I would not consider them for nymphs. In fact, I prefer stronger wire hooks (1x strong, 2x strong, or 3x strong) for long-shanked nymphs to minimize the risk of bending when bottom-snagged or even while fighting fish. Tying droppers off the bend of fine wire hooks also results in bent hooks.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Here's a tip for anyone getting into tying for shops, etc. Whenever you get a new order (something you haven't done before) try to get a sample to tie from (very helpful to have the actual hook being used....). Now for the best part -each time you fill an order save an extra of each pattern as your "master" -and make sure it's the best of each batch... That way the next time you get a repeat order you'll have a sample to tie from. With each order filled you'll improve and learn to be able to generate that exact pattern over and over again....

 

 

I consider my collection of master patterns to be essential.... Even ten years later I can match color, dimensions, hook style and size to the master that was saved years before.... very handy.

[Freddo 0]

Hi - I went nuts looking for a "standard" and don't think one exists (try for standard "window envelope" specifications when you are completely and utterly bored).

 

I've found these links helpful for comparisons and cross references:

 

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server4600/cb329/product_images/uploaded_images/allen-fly-fishing-hook-equivalency-chart.jpg

http://www.intheriffle.com/fly-tying-tips-techniques/fly-tying-hook-conversion-chart/

https://app.box.com/s/01db9ea439c7fbd59b55

 

Hope these help!