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Dragon fly Wings!! Help !!!!!!!


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:29 AM

I need some advise from you all that tie these things??

I have now done 5 sets of wings and not happy yet!
I have tried the scrachy wing and I just don't like the result I'm getting (spent 20hrs on them) 3 sets made wallbash.gif

I have tried the method Paul Willock uses and spent 30hrs on it (2 sets made) wallbash.gif

Try and remember back to the time you did your first one ,

Do I need to be more patient dry.gif

How long should it take to make these wings as a beginner?? dunno.gif

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#2 Paul vd Driesche

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:48 AM

Hehe....the wings are the most delicate, frustrating and time consuming part of the work. On top of that you are working on wings that kept me away from the dragon flies.
Like you I don't like wings with just the long vains or scratched wings (although some do a nice job that way) or even worse printed wings.
The pattern and thickness (more like thinness) of the vains is close to impossible to copy.
Where mayflies and stoneflies have more or less square shaped patterns the dragonfly has pentagon shaped patterns. Ofcourse it can be done and one day I will give it a go but I think it will take dozens of hours for just a single wing. The results will be stunning....no doubt but The frustration will be at least just as impressive...but someday.......

I don't think it's wise to calculate in hours though. It's done when it's done. Do a complicated project like that in steps. Do a part of the wing and when you get frustrated do another fly....then another part of a wing....and another fly and so on and so on....

Good luck

Paul
www.KickAssFlyTying.com

#3 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 07:37 AM

QUOTE (Paul vd Driesche @ Feb 15 2011, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hehe....the wings are the most delicate, frustrating and time consuming part of the work. On top of that you are working on wings that kept me away from the dragon flies.
Like you I don't like wings with just the long vains or scratched wings (although some do a nice job that way) or even worse printed wings.
The pattern and thickness (more like thinness) of the vains is close to impossible to copy.
Where mayflies and stoneflies have more or less square shaped patterns the dragonfly has pentagon shaped patterns. Ofcourse it can be done and one day I will give it a go but I think it will take dozens of hours for just a single wing. The results will be stunning....no doubt but The frustration will be at least just as impressive...but someday.......

I don't think it's wise to calculate in hours though. It's done when it's done. Do a complicated project like that in steps. Do a part of the wing and when you get frustrated do another fly....then another part of a wing....and another fly and so on and so on....

Good luck

Paul


Cool thanks Paul,

I was thinking of producing the wing with thread as the viens!!I'm going to glue each one first into the odd shape they are then placing then on the wing with varnish. Do you think I'm heading down the right path??

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#4 johan-p

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:37 PM

Jeremy,
That is pritty much the way how I did it on this one.





But you have come to a point you get happy whit the result, because there is no end in making these wings they are just to difficult and consume to much time.

johan
http://johanput.nl/

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#5 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:05 PM

QUOTE (johan-p @ Feb 15 2011, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jeremy,
That is pritty much the way how I did it on this one.





But you have come to a point you get happy whit the result, because there is no end in making these wings they are just to difficult and consume to much time.

johan


Thanks Johan,
What did you use as your base for the wings on this dragonfly??

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#6 Paul vd Driesche

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:11 PM

I do think you are heading down the right path. I use thread for all my vainingwork

The problem with thread is that it has no taper. Unless you you more than one strand. On my stone flies I use pieces made out of 2,3 and 4 strands. That way you decide what thickness is good for big vains like on the base of the wing or thinner ones on the tips. and you can create vains that start with 4 strands and end with just one so you can create a taper.
I don't agree with Johan though. For me there is no such thing as "it takes to much time". Thinking this way will show in the details of you work. Johan is a friend of mine and we talk a lot about how far you can or want to take it. The wings like he made are not good enough for me but since I don't have a better way yet my dragon flies will have to wait. And honestly...his dragon fly looks good...no doubt about that...it's just that it's basicly only a 50% finished wing...... But most people on shows love it so.....

And to answer your question about what he used as a base? It's a transparent sheet like they use on overhead projectors. He is my suplier too wink.gif

Greets Paul
www.KickAssFlyTying.com

#7 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (Paul vd Driesche @ Feb 15 2011, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do think you are heading down the right path. I use thread for all my vainingwork

The problem with thread is that it has no taper. Unless you you more than one strand. On my stone flies I use pieces made out of 2,3 and 4 strands. That way you decide what thickness is good for big vains like on the base of the wing or thinner ones on the tips. and you can create vains that start with 4 strands and end with just one so you can create a taper.
I don't agree with Johan though. For me there is no such thing as "it takes to much time". Thinking this way will show in the details of you work. Johan is a friend of mine and we talk a lot about how far you can or want to take it. The wings like he made are not good enough for me but since I don't have a better way yet my dragon flies will have to wait. And honestly...his dragon fly looks good...no doubt about that...it's just that it's basicly only a 50% finished wing...... But most people on shows love it so.....

And to answer your question about what he used as a base? It's a transparent sheet like they use on overhead projectors. He is my suplier too wink.gif

Greets Paul


Thanks Paul,

Healthy discussion is always a good thing!!

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#8 arkle

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:31 AM

Help is on the way.....

#9 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:36 PM

Well another 40hrs and lots of ideas went across my desk wallbash.gif wallbash.gif

I'm sick of wings right now!!! crying.gif crying.gif

I think I might have found something blink.gif blink.gif to use!!

Give me about a month to ty one up and I will post it!

Thank You everyone for your input and encouragement !

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#10 arkle

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 03:47 AM

The first wings are now ready & available from www.deercreek.co.uk I gather more versions are "in production"

#11 Jeremy Parker

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 08:36 AM

QUOTE (arkle @ Mar 1 2011, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The first wings are now ready & available from www.deercreek.co.uk I gather more versions are "in production"


Arkle thank you, but this is not what I'm looking for!!!
I want to be a realistic tyer and this is an important area I want to learn, not use printed wings!!

Please don't be offended, thank you for your comment and the site looks great!!

I've tried the printed wings and in my opinion it looks very tacky!! (please be clear, my opinion!!) I'm sure they have there place and are used by some,but they are not for me!!

Again please don't be offended as you know realistic tying is a personal journey and we all have a route we want to take and learn!!!!!!!

Blessings,
Jeremy
Take a kid fishing
John 3:16
Realistic Flies, are all flies not made for fishing??
"To create history one should be a great general,an inventor,or an explorer,but to those of us who are not so fortunate as to be creators is permitted the more humble mission of recording what is accomplished by others"
Mary Orvis Marbury

#12 arkle

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 02:49 PM

Jeremy, thank you for your reply. I am not in the least bit offended. These wings are for what's classed as "fishable" realistics, the material(s) used in there construction are, as far as I'm aware unique. They have been extensively tested by Joseph Ludkin, their designer & manufacturer. When he's not teaching Art & Design in central London, he's often to be found fishing on the streams of Shropshire with his father.

#13 martie

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:12 AM

hello there,

To me, i've just figure it all out. This is some packaging material what we get every week into the mailbox(advertising). it's thin, crispy, and looks good to me. The vein problem is actually easy. The thinnest steelwire i can get, a few dropps of superglue and paint it black. Sorry guys, there's no hook in this one. The reply is only ment for techniques some new ideas for you realistic tiers. I like to create the wings of any flying creature, those are the real detail i want to achieve, and of course share it to anyone. if anyone want to know how i put the pattern on this material, let me know.

martie

Attached File  P1100809.JPG   42.96KB   50 downloads

#14 martie

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:41 AM

I found some other picture for you in my database about the details on the wings. I know it's a huge one, but it will help you to start to create these ones.


Attached File  P1100871.JPG   103.14KB   67 downloads



martie, if you like to see more photo's of my creatures, on face book (martie van den brand)

#15 sandflyx

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:51 PM

Might not be exact but I like using Raffia coated with thinned goop.

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