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Beginner - purchased Grizzly Saddle Hackle- wrong kind?


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25 replies to this topic

#1 pondfisher

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 03:36 PM

Hello,

 

This is my first post.

 

I am new to fly tying and was attempting to tie an Adams Dry so I made a purchase thinking i had all i needed to tie this pattern:

 

https://www.youtube....tz2s52&index=52

 

 

I purchased a large amount of METZ #1 saddle grizzly hackle thinking i could use it for both the wings and hackle wrapped body.  

 

The grizzly hackle works fine for the wings but not so much for wrapping the hook. Its way to webby and does not flair out.  The hackle clumps as i wrap it.  Is this the wrong kind of hackle for wrapping around dry flies? Besides wings..what other use is there for this webby feather?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  

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#2 Bimini15

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 03:59 PM

Well... Not sure about Adams, others will know.
But those are good feathers for large streamers, bass, saltwater, etc.
Bimini15

#3 RickZieger

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 04:10 PM

Does the package say if it is hen or rooster?

 

Rick



#4 pondfisher

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 04:16 PM

Says Hen....Could these be used for soft hackle wet flies?  Im thinking my dry Adams plans are on the back burner?

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  • Attached File  hen.jpg   171.45KB   1 downloads


#5 Bugsy

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

You made an honest mistake:  wrong hackle.

 

I have some older Metz #1 & #2 grade rooster saddles are terrific for larger wets and streamers.  I have no experience with their recent products.  Did you buy an actual saddle on the skin?  Or were the feathers loose or strung?

 

Edit:  You state these are hen saddle.  That makes sense.  Rooster has much better barring and a balance of web (vs the full web of hen).

 

For dry flies, you want dry fly hackle, preferably "genetic" hackle.  Whiting Hackle offers "100" packs of pre-sized rooster saddle hackle for tying approx 100 flies.  At $20, it's not the cheapest route but is an option for those who don't need a large supply of hackle in a wide size range.  There is virtually zero waste with these feathers.  Other Whiting options include Pro Grade, High & Dry, or even Bronze Grade at slightly higher cost.

 

The tips of the hackle you show doesn't appear suitable for winging a traditional Adams.  For these wings, I use neck hackles from older Hoffman hen necks; these have a slightly wider and more rounded profile that is less common in newer genetic hen necks. 

Attached File  DSC04394.JPG   73.05KB   0 downloads

 

If I was new at tying and couldn't source a desirable feather for the wing tips, I'd construct upright and divided wings from clumped, natural mallard flank (or teal).

 

 

 



#6 mvendon

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:02 PM

Says Hen....Could these be used for soft hackle wet flies?  Im thinking my dry Adams plans are on the back burner?

 

 Hi pondfisher,

 

 It won't be much use for an Adams, but it's the perfect feather for a size 8 Ausable Ugly, which is good for both trout and bass. If you need some dubbing, just let me know. I have a huge amount of the correct mix that's required, and would be happy to send you some. Here's a link to what it looks like and how to tie it. 

 

http://www.flyfishth...26/Default.aspx

 

Regards,

                Mark



#7 flytire

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:25 PM

just tie an adams wet fly

 

https://donbastianwe.../adams-wet-fly/

 

Could these be used for soft hackle wet flies?

 

absolutely


The fish care less than we do!


#8 pondfisher

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:28 PM

appreciate the comments!  I am going to do a little research before buying a $20 bag of feathers!

 

I think i am going to put my dry fly tying aspirations on hold. The Ausable Ugly pattern looks promising. I do not have muskrat but i have some grey marabou that might work ok.  An Adams wet fly?....gotta try that one too!

 

Again thanks.  Going to focus on wets for awhile.



#9 rstaight

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:50 PM

Yea, hen saddle isn't much use for dry flies, but as said earlier great for wets. Hen cape does work well for wings.

 

Since your just staring I would suggest a Grizzly Cape. Your not going to get as many flies per feather but it is more versatile.

 

You get spade hackle that is good for wooly buggers on the sides. The smaller feathers on the cape is where you get your wings from. The feathers toward the center are nice for hackles on dry flies.


"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.  Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick F. McManus


#10 Dave G.

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 07:08 PM

You can tie shorter woolly buggers and woolly worms with hen, I have a Spencer grizzly hen skin ( Spencer went out of business a bunch of years ago now) I've been using for years now just for that purpose. Sometimes you gotta kind of stretch the wraps a bit ( make less turns do the job of more) . I use that skin just for woolly buggers though, a certain one that I tie. And those buggers have caught a bunch of fish, mostly larger fish at that.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#11 mikechell

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:59 PM

You are well on your way to becoming a class A fly tier !!!

I figure lots of people tell their Spouses, "Oh, damn ... I bought the wrong feathers!  They won't take them back, either, I'll just have to keep them.  Well, gotta go back to the store to buy the right feathers!"

 

Welcome to the site ... and the spending addiction that is pattern tying.


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#12 Piker20

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 10:37 PM

Have a look at one of the forum members, Ebrants hackles which I believe he sells through sidelinghilltackle
I have one of his early capes and he has brought his genetic stock on a lot since then.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

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#13 Poopdeck

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:50 AM

appreciate the comments!  I am going to do a little research before buying a $20 bag of feathers!
 
I think i am going to put my dry fly tying aspirations on hold. The Ausable Ugly pattern looks promising. I do not have muskrat but i have some grey marabou that might work ok.  An Adams wet fly?....gotta try that one too!
 
Again thanks.  Going to focus on wets for awhile.


Your actually paying 20 dollars for about a dozen feathers. No where near "a bag" of feathers. But they are nice feathers. If you get the Orvis coupons and wait for a sale you can get an Orvis hackle intro pack for about 50 bucks for four half capes in brown, dun, black, and grizzly. It's a steal when you can get the right coupon.

Dry fly hackle is expensive and there is not much you can research about that. Look into tying comparadun style dry flies. No expensive hackle tips and they are equally as effective. It's pretty much all I fish.

#14 Dave G.

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 11:21 AM

For some of your smaller flies take a look at the little Wapsi both hen and cock skins. You really only get one fly per feather from them but they are a good fill in till you know what you want. I might not have considered them if I hadn't seen Davie McPhail tie from one. But I bought a natural hen that I do my soft hackles from ( if I don't use grouse). And I bought a furnace cock neck and also a brown one, the feathers look quite decent and I've tied quite a few flies from them, not putting a dent in them yet. They are small, must be small birds but for $10 for a cock neck I'm not complaining. Not sure about grizzly though, they probably don't have that one. hey, worth a look see anyway. I want to say the hen was $6. Lets put it this way, they are better than the India skins you see around where you can't find a feather smaller than size 10 or maybe 12 and sparse barbed at that.

 

All that said, it's worth having a real quality Grizzly neck or saddle, even if it's a half skin. You can always mix grizzly in with some weaker looking feathers, be they ginger or brown or what ever and that will fluff the fly up and help in flotation and hardly notice it's there or if you do notice it, it looks good..


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#15 flyty1

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 02:54 PM

If you want to stretch your dollars and produce perfectly "fishable" flies, learn to tie parachute versions of your favorite patterns. You can use oversize hackle (vs a conventionally wraped fly) and, for small sizes (12 to 18) I use the cheap Indian rooster capes (which are far less expensive than genetic hackle like Whiting, Metz, Keough, etc.). The other big pluses with a parachute is they land right side up on the water and they can be tied with highly visible materials and colors so you have a strike indicator built into your fly.