Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

Can elk be substituted for deer on a rolled muddler?


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#16 Chuck McFarlane

Chuck McFarlane

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:38 AM

with the hairs held close to the hook, a drop or two of uv resin will keep those hairs from flaring too much

That's another keeper Norm! With all these great suggestions I may not be needing that deer hair after all. At least not in the short term. Awesome. I'm up to #8 now. 4 more to go! Set the coffee, set the alarm for 5 AM. Golden! Here's what we're chasing tomorrow.

p1010990_zpsvryh0qif.jpgThis is a Japanese dace. Great fare on a 1 to 4 wt. both wet and dry flies. Pictured is a little guy. They usually mature out to 15 inches or so. Took some nice ones on a Doc Spratley yesterday. We'll see how they respond to the rolled muddler.



#17 Jaydub

Jaydub

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 857 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:45 AM

The Rolled Muddler is a terrific Sea-run Cutthroat fly. Instead of spinning the head, I've found it easier to tie the wing on top, leaving the butts of the hair. Then flip the hook over and tie in a clump of hair on the bottom. Then trim the head, thinning out the wing in the process.

 

Here is one of mine. Some like them more sparse. Credit for the glass bead goes to a fellow on another forum. I think it's a nice touch.

Rolled%20Muddler_zpshcgbuigf.jpg



#18 Chuck McFarlane

Chuck McFarlane

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 11:50 AM

The Rolled Muddler is a terrific Sea-run Cutthroat fly. Instead of spinning the head, I've found it easier to tie the wing on top, leaving the butts of the hair. Then flip the hook over and tie in a clump of hair on the bottom.

 

Here is one of mine. Some like them more sparse. Credit for the glass bead goes to a fellow on another forum. I think it's a nice touch.

Rolled%20Muddler_zpshcgbuigf.jpg

Killer! This is a great example of what I'm trying to do. I'll try that stacking tip. Thanks for putting this up!



#19 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,363 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:16 PM

i suck when it comes to hair

 

BirdsNestMuddler_zps72cf12ef.jpg


The fish care less than we do!


#20 SilverCreek

SilverCreek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:23 PM

Not exactly on point but a good article on elk vs deer vs moose hair for fly tying is this one by Charlie Craven:

 

http://midcurrent.co...hair-selection/


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#21 Lesg

Lesg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 294 posts

Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:43 PM

What's the difference between a rolled muddler and a regular muddler ? A quick search didn't show me much difference other than a smaller head.

                                                   Les



#22 mikechell

mikechell

    I LOVE SNOW ITS SO FLUFFY!!!!!!!

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,739 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 12:57 AM

This is from "Global Fly FIsher ...

 

"As you can see on the image to the right, I usually tie my muddlers quite fat. Not so the Rolled Muddler! The Rolled Muddler is a slender fly with a fairly skinny wing and a small and streamlined head. My muddlers also float or fish in the surface. The Rolled Muddler sinks and jigs on the retrieve."


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#23 retrocarp

retrocarp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,076 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 01:30 AM

I prefer to use deer over elk as it is easier for me to obtain lol

Nice fly Chuck. Sparse is good !!


Nick


#24 Chuck McFarlane

Chuck McFarlane

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:04 AM

Thanks everyone! Well the trips over and we had a great time. Rolled muddlers performed well.I didn't score any dace but had some great swipes on the end of a couple of swings.I think I was up too late last night lol. Buddy did better than me and got 2 nice sized dace. One came on a winged march brown wet and the other on a silver bodied rolled muddler. We found a backwater connected to the river and hammered bluegill one after the other. 

 

P8140036_zps4vx2nhmb.jpg

 

Cheers Norm for the bird's nest muddler pattern. Looks like another interesting tie.

 

Thanks Silver Creek! Charlie Craven's article points out some interesting information about hair that I never realized. One, deer flairs more than elk depending on the type. I'd always thought the opposite so now I know it's my tying technique and not the materials fault. Norm's resin tech. I used on a couple of files works wonders.

 

Mike the rolled muddler works really nice. I found if I snapped the rod tip a few inches then stripped the slack and repeated, the fly dipped and darted like a little fry.

 

Nick this a fun little pattern to tie and fish and yes sparse is good, but you can do what you want with it. I'm going to work on fuller heads to give it more darting action in the future. 



#25 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,908 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:49 AM

What's the difference between a rolled muddler and a regular muddler ? A quick search didn't show me much difference other than a smaller head.

                                                   Les

Les, the Muddler Minnow is for most intents and purposes a different fly , though like most flies it too has variations. But the original or traditional as we say, has turkey slips for a tail and  larger slips on each side along the top forming the over wing and adding to the side profile of the fly. As mentioned it can be greased up and fished dry or sunk and fished as a minnow. With minor alterations it can pass for a hopper or with different alterations , a sculpin. The rolled Muddler has no turkey over wing or tailing.

It really doesn't look the same: muddler-minnow.jpg


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#26 Lesg

Lesg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 294 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 01:32 PM

Thanks Dave, I fish and tie a lot of muddlers but until now had never heard of a rolled muddler. Do you fish them on the bottom to imitate a sculpin? They do look like they would sink a lot easier.

 

                      Les



#27 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,908 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 02:06 PM

Thanks Dave, I fish and tie a lot of muddlers but until now had never heard of a rolled muddler. Do you fish them on the bottom to imitate a sculpin? They do look like they would sink a lot easier.

 

                      Les

No Les, where I fish a sculpin is better represented with the Muddler head but zonker tail. Or perhaps ( some guys use them) Marabou Muddler.

 

I mostly use a certain small Muddler I tie for up in Maine in general though. For brookies up north I have the best luck with  darker Muddlers that are tied very much in the profile I showed. That is to say red squirrel tail underwing over gold tinsel, and darker dear hair and the more natural brown turkey than the tan turkey you often see. Those can be fished wet for brookies or small ones floated for salmon. I suppose fished wet they could be taken for small sculpin or just any small baitfish. What I know it brookies love them in most smaller and even larger rivers or streams.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#28 Lesg

Lesg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 294 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 06:01 PM

Dave,

     I tie muddlers in the more traditional way that you show in the photo except I leave a larger rounded head than that. They will outfish anything else for brook trout around here in my opinion. The heads don't need to be trimmed neatly either, sometimes I think rougher is better.

 

                                                                                   Les



#29 Chuck McFarlane

Chuck McFarlane

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 14 August 2016 - 09:22 PM

Started playing around with the Bird's Nest Muddler Norm posted. This fly has some interesting possibilities for me in terms of head material. I'm first going to dial the pattern in then experiment with some spiky hair blends and dyed mallard flanks. Great addition to the rolled muddler section in my box. This pattern has a hint of classic with a wild side!

P8150037_zpsz4xianlj.jpg



#30 retrocarp

retrocarp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,076 posts

Posted 15 August 2016 - 05:38 AM

Really nice ties Chuck


Nick