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hook substituting and hook eye question


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25 replies to this topic

#1 870ExpressMag

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:20 AM

I'm a newbie, just getting into the big world of fly tying.  I have tied a handful so far and love it so far.  I have found a few more patterns i would like to try, so i scoured youtube and watched different peoples versions of the flies i want to tie.  I then decide which one seems easiest for my skills, and what i will need for supplies.  I am about to put an order in to J Stockard, but i am curious on something.  I have a heck of a time matching up hook types.  Seems like everyone calls for something else, and I am constantly trying to cross reference hooks to try and get a comparable, since it seems like every online order site carries all but one or two of what I am looking for.  So i am curious on how to go about substituting hooks, and whats the benefit/purpose of a turned down eye vs a straight eye?



#2 Cold

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 10:28 AM

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#3 Dave G.

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 10:51 AM

Hook eye bend to me is a non issue other than aesthetics . There is scientific reasoning behind each design but I've found that to be basically a non issue to my fishing. Hook bend and point length is another matter. I have some size 14 hooks where the point goes back about half the length of the shank and I don't like how they set into a fish at all, though once hooked you got em.. You probably should do yourself a favor and just kind of follow the hook profile rather than direct cross. Like Standard or 1x, 2x long for instance and round bend, straight shank or curved etc. Just observe those stats about the hook you are trying to match. There are cross charts out there though, I've attached some in the forums along the way actually. I don't recall where I got them from, maybe Hook and Hackle was one source.. For Catskill ties I found another chart from a guide service and tackle store out in NY State someplace.

 

Well like this:  http://www.hookandha...rison_Chart.pdf


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#4 fishingbobnelson

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:10 AM

I, personally, like the J. Stockard hooks for most tying.  If you click on the Stockard hook, in the description it will give you the brand name equivalents.  As was mentioned, if you google fly hook comparison chart, you will find several.  Welcome to the Forum.


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The Royal Wulff Murders, by Keith McCafferty

 

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#5 mikechell

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:55 AM

Look up the member, "Eide" and follow his link to his website.  He's put together a HUGE repertoire of hooks for comparison.

 

Most flies can be tied on any hook you have, if you're tying for fishing.  Match the length if you want to mimic the original.  Go larger or smaller for your local waters.

 

Modern day patterns, down eye vs. straight eye is only a matter of personal preference.

 

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#6 870ExpressMag

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 02:04 PM

thanks for the info guys!!  What got me really researching this is that i follow a lot of the tightlinevideo youtube tying videos and he uses a lot of Dai-Riki hooks.  well i would like to start using these as I am trying to fill a couple of fly boxes for my nephews for christmas presents, but i dont believe my tying abilities, or their fly fishing abilities, warrants the expense of TMC or daiichi hooks, so i was looking for the Dai-riki hooks in the videos but i cant seem to find the Dai-riki #285 on most sites, so i was looking for a comparable hook.



#7 flytire

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 03:01 PM

Pattern recipes are just guides like I mentioned on the other forum you posted on.

I don't usually post specific brands when I supply recipes to patterns that I tie. I just say hook: curved and let the tier use whatever they have on hand. I see a lot of recipes on line doing the same thing.

There is no fly tying commandment that specifically states that all flies must be tied with only the materials in the recipe.

There are many hook conversion charts on the internet if one just takes the time to look.

Fly hooks are manufactured in a few factories in Asia and those manufacturers will make the same hook for daiichi as they will for many other boutique fly shops that want them. So an Allen fly hook could be the exact same hook as a daiichi (I'm not say it is just using it as an example)

The fish care less than we do!


#8 utyer

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 03:08 PM

Correction, the picture I looked at was not an accurate depiction of the hook.  The Dai-riki #285 is what is most often called a Natural bend hook with a straight eye.  The J Stockard 430 would be the most similar.  These are in my opinion a very useful hook.  They can be used to tie dry flies like the Stimulator or other longer bodied dry flies.  They are usefull in all sizes as a nymph or larva hook.  They would also work as a leach hook.    


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#9 Dave G.

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 03:29 PM

http://www.worleybug...ki_285_Hook.htm

 

Try there, looks like $6.95 for 50 hooks give or take.... 3x long , heavy wire, curved hook.

 

Since you watch the Tight lines videos anyway, why not support them, you can also get them there: http://www.tightline...0/Dai-Riki.html

 

Different than utyer came up with, I came up with the Stockard FF430 ( based on stats from the first link) :  http://www.jsflyfish...urved-fly-hook


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#10 flytire

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:02 PM

the fly shop beats them all. $1.75 for 25 hooks

 

http://catalog.thefl...tfs-2305-hooks/

 

basically the same as daiichi 285

 

fish wont know the difference


The fish care less than we do!


#11 Dave G.

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:14 PM

the fly shop beats them all. $1.75 for 25 hooks

 

http://catalog.thefl...tfs-2305-hooks/

 

basically the same as daiichi 285

 

fish wont know the difference

Stockard's own brand is $2.89 for 50 and they support this site !

 

Hah ! Probably all of these are the same hook.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#12 FIN-ITE 34

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 05:11 PM

JS would be the 720 or 720H if you want a heavy wire form of that profile.

Dai-Riki is the 285

 

And although I am at the Tight Lines Fly Fishing shop in Parsippany, NJ evey week and do drop more than a few quid there, they are in no way affiliated with Tightline Productions that makes the great videos. Tim from Tightline Productions is more closely tied to Shannon's Fly Shop in Califon, NJ.



#13 flytire

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 05:53 PM

 

the fly shop beats them all. $1.75 for 25 hooks

 

http://catalog.thefl...tfs-2305-hooks/

 

basically the same as daiichi 285

 

fish wont know the difference

Stockard's own brand is $2.89 for 50 and they support this site !

 

Hah ! Probably all of these are the same hook.

 

that fine but they currently cover only certain sizes

 

where do they support this site?


The fish care less than we do!


#14 Dave G.

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 05:59 PM

 

 

the fly shop beats them all. $1.75 for 25 hooks

 

http://catalog.thefl...tfs-2305-hooks/

 

basically the same as daiichi 285

 

fish wont know the difference

Stockard's own brand is $2.89 for 50 and they support this site !

 

Hah ! Probably all of these are the same hook.

 

that fine but they currently cover only certain sizes

 

where do they support this site?

 

Last I knew they did, maybe I'm thinking of the rod building forum. I don't know but I'm not searching it out now.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#15 Dave G.

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 06:02 PM

JS would be the 720 or 720H if you want a heavy wire form of that profile.

Dai-Riki is the 285

 

And although I am at the Tight Lines Fly Fishing shop in Parsippany, NJ evey week and do drop more than a few quid there, they are in no way affiliated with Tightline Productions that makes the great videos. Tim from Tightline Productions is more closely tied to Shannon's Fly Shop in Califon, NJ.

I'll have to take your word on it all cause I'm done searching stuff out for today LOL !


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"