Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

First Wooly bugger


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 03:51 PM

Looking for critique on my first olive wooly bugger, I guess it's technically not my first as the first ones I tied were a long time ago, on a picnic table, next to a river, with squirrel tail instead of marabou for tails. I'm using strung hackle, seems to be a lot of mess in the bag and it seems to me as the hackle feathers are to short, I feel like I didn't get the hackle back far enough on the chenille body

Attached Files



#2 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 04:15 PM

I don't see a photo but then my connection is really slow this afternoon too.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#3 Idaho RC

Idaho RC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 257 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 04:20 PM

I think the feather is a little to short.  But that's not that big of a deal.  The hackle is a lot larger than I would use.  I had the same problem with strung saddle hackle.  You might try one of the Whiting bugger packs.  They cost more than the packs of strung hackle but there is a lot in one of the packs and the feathers are really long and the right size for buggers.  i also understand that some of the larger feathers on a cape will work but I don't use them because I like the bugger packs so much.  



#4 mikechell

mikechell

    I LOVE SNOW ITS SO FLUFFY!!!!!!!

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,750 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 04:25 PM

Well tied.  Even palmering of the hackle.

 

The hackle is a bit long for the length of the fly, but that will give it plenty of action.  


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#5 SilverCreek

SilverCreek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 06:10 PM

I have a simple criteria for a well tied fly. Would it sell if it were in a bin in a fly shop? If it won't sell, it can be improved.

 

1. I would suggest NOT cutting off the marabou tail fibers. They should be tied to length and the fibers should have a natural taper.

 

2. As others have said, the hackle is too long by about 40%.

 

3. I think the palmering needs work. The hackle ends before the end of the body. I suspect you tied the hackle in at the head and wrapped to the rear. Hackle should extend the entire length of the fly. I think if you spread the hackle wraps a bit more, you would have still had hackle to wrap to the beginning of the marabou.

 

4. Notice how the hackle wraps are very closely wrapped at the start and then they become wider spaced at the back as you ran out of hackle. In fact, the hackle is so tightly wrapped at the front that the cheniile is obscured. When you miswrap the hackle, unwrap it and rewrap rather than finishing it short.

 

See the video below and notice the even wraps of the hackle and the spacing so you can see the wraps of chenille.

 

 


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#6 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 16 October 2016 - 07:46 PM

1. I would suggest NOT cutting off the marabou tail fibers. They should be tied to length and the fibers should have a natural taper.
 
2. As others have said, the hackle is too long by about 40%.
 
3. I think the palmering needs work. The hackle ends before the end of the body. I suspect you tied the hackle in at the head and wrapped to the rear. Hackle should extend the entire length of the fly. I think if you spread the hackle wraps a bit more, you would have still had hackle to wrap to the beginning of the marabou.
 
4. Notice how the hackle wraps are very closely wrapped at the start and then they become wider spaced at the back as you ran out of hackle. In fact, the hackle is so tightly wrapped at the front that the cheniile is obscured. When you miswrap the hackle, unwrap it and rewrap rather than finishing it short.
 
See the video below and notice the even wraps of the hackle and the spacing so you can see the wraps of chenille.
 
 


That's the video I was using when I tied, that's why I tore off the extended fibers of the marabou, because he did in the video. I suspected I had wrapped the hackle wrong as I came up short, and the fibers looked way to long to me too. I'm not impressed with the bag of strung hackle, seems like a lot of the feathers are just like that one, long fibers and short stems. But I'm just starting, and I bought a bunch of supplies to try a few different patterns, so before I spend more money on expensive hackle I figured I should just use this stuff while I'm still learning

#7 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 17 October 2016 - 04:13 AM

Ah,the photo came right in today. Hey that's a better bugger than my first one !

 

The hackle will be fine, I'd prefer the barbs be too long than too short personally. Also I've been tying shorter bodies on buggers for 20 years on mine because of a Grizzly hen cape that I have where the feathers are all fairly short, they fish fine. At certain times of year I tie up some buggers from that cape.  I tie my bigger buggers often on bait hooks in that pattern, so it really doesn't matter that the feather is sort of short.

 

The way I prep my marabou feather if to use marabou ( on my small buggers I often use rabbit fibers because when I say small I mean size 14 and 12 and the rabbit is finer than marabou), is look at the feather and the center at the tips isn't going to look right generally, so I go back to a certain point along the center barb and snip it off, that gets rid of the odd center tips. Tie in with loose wraps, then draw the feather forward so the tips look right in proportion to the length of the fly, then tighten down on the rest of the wraps.. Depending who I'm tying the fly for it could have a shorter tail or a crazy long one (my wife likes huge tails on teh buggers and not teh one to argue because she is the big fish queen !).


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#8 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,365 posts

Posted 17 October 2016 - 01:02 PM

NOBODY ties a perfect wooly bugger, especially their first one

 

yours is fine

 

go catch some fish with it

 

i personally dont like a lot of junk in the trunk and prefer the finer tipped marabou vs the fluffy stuff. however its all tyers choice

 

step%2010%20body%20rib%20and%20finished%


The fish care less than we do!


#9 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 09:44 AM

Here's a few more i tied up last night, not sure if im improving or not.  i know all of these will fish just fine, but im a newbie and im trying to get better so thats why im still practicing these.  Heres what i think im doing wrong and can improve on, but I will let you guys be the judge.

I think my hackle selection is getting a little better as far as barb length.  I'm realizing the difference between cheap strung hackle, and decent hackle.  I tied the first one by ripping the stringy tips off the marabou, like tightlinevideos does.  I tried the 2nd and 3rd one leaving the tips on, then the 4th and 5th i went back to ripping the tips off and tied in a few strands of small flashabou, i had a hard time getting it to show up on camera though.  I think my marabou tail length is inconsistent, i think i know why, i measure the tail length to be just a hair over shank length, but i think im inconsistent with transferring that to the tie in point.  i am using tightlinevideos for reference so i am tying the marabou in just behind the wire wraps.  All these tied on a size 10 TMC hook

 

#1 - Ripped tips

Attached File  IMG_0146.JPG   139.15KB   2 downloads

#2 - stringy tips

Attached File  IMG_0147.JPG   129.93KB   2 downloads

#3 - stringy tips

Attached File  IMG_0148.JPG   115.29KB   2 downloads

#4 - back to ripped tips and small flashabou

Attached File  IMG_0149.JPG   117.86KB   2 downloads

#5 - back to ripped tips and small flashabou

Attached File  IMG_0150.JPG   121.4KB   2 downloads

 



#10 Bimini15

Bimini15

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,325 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:00 AM

The only thing I would point out is that the chenille should cover its own tying point, in my opinion.
In some of the pics it looks like I can see the tail, the thread and then the chenille.
Bimini15

#11 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,365 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:35 AM

strip out the fuzz from the end of the chenille leaving the 2 core threads. tie those core threads to the top of the hook shank and wrap back to the end of the shank as shown below

 

step%207%20chenille%20tie%20in_zps2ta2jb

 

begin wrapping the chenille forward covering the thread underbody. see below. 

 

step%208%20wap%20chenille_zpsudkurxa8.jp

 

i used the hackle tip tied in at the bend of the hook technique


The fish care less than we do!


#12 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:46 AM

The only thing I would point out is that the chenille should cover its own tying point, in my opinion.
In some of the pics it looks like I can see the tail, the thread and then the chenille.

 

I was using the same technique as in the tightline video.  I wrapped in the chenille behind the beadhead and wrapped it to the hook shank all the way to the base of the tail, and then wrapped the chenille back over the underbody to the head.  However I did not strip out the chenille fibers as in flytires pictures, i left the chenille whole when i bound it to the hook.

 

i also think i am going to try tying in the hackle at the back of the hook, instead of behind the beadhead next time, it seems like that stem gives me troubles and bulds a lot of bulk behind the bead making the whip finish more difficult due to the bulk already being built behind the head from the stem.  if i do this, should i tie in the stem or the tip?  i tie in the stem right behind the bead causing the longer hackle fibers to be at the front of the hook and gradually tapering shorter as i move back, if i tie in the stem at the back of the hook, the longer fibers would be in the back and the shorter ones behind the head, which is more desirable?



#13 flyguy613

flyguy613

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 10:50 AM

Yes tie in the hackle by the tip and the same spot you tie in chenille near the bend of the hook. Not only you won't have to deal with the stem but the natural taper of the hackle will give you much better proportions

#14 mikechell

mikechell

    I LOVE SNOW ITS SO FLUFFY!!!!!!!

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,750 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:20 AM

I prefer the wire over hackle method.

Tie in the tail, wire and chenille at the back, wrap the thread forward.

Tie in the hackle at the front, and palmer it to the rear.

Use the wire to trap the hackle and wind it forward, trapping down the hackle as you go.

Tie in the wire and whip finish.


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#15 Bruce Derington

Bruce Derington

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,370 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:29 AM

Most tie on hackle as shown by flytire, when you palmer forward use less turns so you dont run into too the heavy part of rachis, (stem)


Bruce Derington