Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

First Wooly bugger


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#16 flyguy613

flyguy613

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:45 AM

Personally I use ice dub instead of chenille, better sink rate plus then you can omit the wire altogether. The stem sinks into the dubbing making it just as durable as when tied with the wire.

#17 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 12:39 PM

thanks for the tips guys, ill tie up a few more using the tips and different methods and post when i get em done



#18 Bimini15

Bimini15

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,325 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 01:57 PM

Whatever works. It could just be a case of taking too many wraps just make sure things do not go anywhere, resulting in too much bulk. I have done that myself. Often.
Bimini15

#19 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,364 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 02:30 PM

tie in the ribbing wire at the bend of the hook whether you are wrapping the hackle from the bend to the eye or the eye to the bend. the wire reinforces the hackle stem and adds a little flash and a nano amount of weight

 

some tyers will wrap the hackle stem in the valleys of the wrapped chenille and eliminate the wire completely

 

i'm also not overly concerned if the palmered hackle is even vs tapered. i've used long saddle hackles tying wooly buggers. fish dont care


The fish care less than we do!


#20 Cold

Cold

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 618 posts

Posted 19 October 2016 - 02:51 PM



#21 tidewaterfly

tidewaterfly

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,114 posts

Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:08 PM

870ExpressMag, you've gotten some good critique & advice. Every tyer ties them a little different & none is "wrong". I tie most of mine for bass, with varying body materials and I like leaving a bit of fluff from the base of the hackle, which ends up on the front end. All a matter of what we each like to do. Since I tie many in "larger" sizes, I use strung hackle much of the time, which works well for me. I'll rib mine, either with wire or a cheap mono, both add some extra durability, but the mono adds less weight than the wire. Small detail, but works well for me. Plus, the mono is way cheaper cost wise. 

 

Hey Cold, good reference for Domino's. I drove a tractor trailer for them for almost 18 years. Very good company & the pizza's not too bad either. I found that just like with flies & tyers, it's the people at each Domino's store that makes the difference in how the pizza turn out. Some are certainly better than others and those who strive to produce a better product, usually do. 



#22 Cold

Cold

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 618 posts

Posted 24 October 2016 - 07:31 AM

.



#23 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 24 October 2016 - 08:37 AM

One point I forgot to mention: if you're tying them in the style where you tie in all your body materials at the bend then wrap them all forward and finish at the head (not depending on catching anything with a wire at the back), you should make sure of two small things.

 

First, make sure your first (most rear-ward) wrap of chenille covers your tail tie in point so that there's no exposed thread wraps at the back of the body/base of the tail.  That area gets hit hard, and any exposed thread there is a liability that will likely knock your fly apart well before its time.

 

Second, when you're wrapping the chenille, and making the first wrap, make sure to lift your hackle feather (which is already tied in at the same position), and make sure your first wrap of chenille is behind it, that is, coming from the bend forward, you have a wrap of chenille back there before your hackle starts.  This is for mostly the same reason as the first: the hackle stem is a comparatively delicate part of the fly, and if you wrapped your chenille forward without lifting the hackle, when it came time to wrap the hackle, your first wrap would be located behind the back of the chenille, meaning that fragile stem would be exposed in a spot on the fly that gets hit hard.  Lifting it so that it's in front of that first wrap means that the whole length of the stem is protected by chenille.  Before I started doing this, for any fly that wasn't lost due to tippet breakage or a bent hook, 95% were due to hackle breaking at the bend.  Once I started tying them this way, it's a toss=up between mangled chenille (which a bed of adhesive would fix), a shredded tail (not much to be done there), or hackle getting torn...but anywhere along the body.  Bent hooks are still the #1 reason I retire buggers, but that small change at the bench has virtually eliminated the #2 reason.

 

thanks for the tips!  i'm hoping to get back to the vise sometime this week to try the new tactics for tying the buggers.



#24 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 25 October 2016 - 07:43 PM

So I tried some of the tips tonight and tied up these two...I tied in my chenille and hackleat the bend of the hook, I did find I had less bulk at the head when whip finishing, so that worked for me. I figured out my measuring to get my tails consistent in length. I wrapped the chenille one wrap behind hackle and then in front of it moving forward, I like this method. I need more practice with my chenille wrapping, still not quite consistent, same with hackle, however I think some of my hackle issues is the quality of the hackle. Fly #1 I thought looked pretty good, but hackle length a tad long. Fly #2 has hackle wrap issues, but I kept having the feather want to twist on me, I didn't have that problem when wrapping base of feather from the front, only happens when I wrap from tip of feather from the bend, am I doing something wrong?

#1
Attached File  IMG_0157.JPG   95.02KB   1 downloads
#2
Attached File  IMG_0158.JPG   152.45KB   0 downloads

#25 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 06:40 AM

Those to me are decent looking and you already know their short comings , small as that is, so no critique from me.

 

To answer your question, Some hackle does tend to twist when wrapped. One thing you could be doing wrong is not tying it in with a flat side of the feather facing out towards you, if you are tying it in so the edge faces you, it then will want to turn flat side out as you wrap. Where if you tie in with the flat side out, it will turn on edge as you wrap,  but non the less, some do twist anyway.

 

If you like how the hackle went on from the front end first and wrapping rearward, then you could tie in a piece of wire at the tail along with the chenille, wrap your chenille forward as usual, then the hackle back. You then trap it in with spiral wraps of the wire forward. You get the extra protection of the wire, some flash, and some color, depending on what color wire you use ( copper or gold would be good on the flies you are tying).


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#26 Cold

Cold

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 618 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:20 AM

.



#27 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:47 AM

thanks for the tips, on the last two i tied last night i did strip the end out of the chenille and tied in just the two strands of string, i will continue to do this as well as it worked great.  It seems like i just need to keep tying some and practice to refine the techniques.  i have some stuff to make some black ones so i will practice all the tips, and whip up some black ones.



#28 Dave G.

Dave G.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:28 AM

Sometimes a bugger that can really produce is to maintain the olive chenille but use black hackle and tail. Just sayin.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#29 870ExpressMag

870ExpressMag

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:49 AM

Sometimes a bugger that can really produce is to maintain the olive chenille but use black hackle and tail. Just sayin.

thanks for the suggestion, i will make a couple of those too



#30 Cold

Cold

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 618 posts

Posted 26 October 2016 - 03:02 PM

.