Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

The importance of the correct hook and material.


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 bass master

bass master

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 109 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 06:59 PM

I have be tying a little over a year. Have an abundance of different material and hooks already. But its not always the right stuff. Is it fine to make a good or close substitution on a fly. It seems I never have the right hair type or hackle. What I pick works for color and style. What have others done when they run into this. I cant be a mini fly store. But on my way. 



#2 JSzymczyk

JSzymczyk

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,366 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:22 PM

It is perfectly fine to substitute materials and hook styles. It's not good form to tie something similar to an established, time-honored pattern and try to pass it off as the real thing.
If you modify a pattern based on what materials you have at your bench, that's great but it's a variant of the original. That has to be applied with a lot of wiggle-room too.
As much as we might argue (with good nature) over stuff like this, the fish are ultimately the only ones who are right. They always tell the truth about whether or not you tied a good fly.

the gales of November remembered...


#3 Bimini15

Bimini15

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,325 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:45 PM

The right stuff is the right stuff because someone said it was. And they keep coming out with more and more "right stuff". So be creative, substitute, not only one fly tying material for another, but a beauty product or a crafts product for a fly tying material. You don't have to have one of everything in every size or color. Find the right stuff for you.
Bimini15

#4 bass master

bass master

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 109 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:50 PM

I have changed colors to suit the waters I fish in. But some flies I could not say what they truly are to be. Do the catch fish, yes. There are truly thousands of different types of flies. To make one and try it with a twist.. Its no harm. no foul.  



#5 DrVette

DrVette

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 942 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:20 PM

Try to find stuff in your list that matches bugs in your waters. Try to plan on buying hooks close to what you need to imitate them and adapt from there. Sometimes you can get lucky getting a hackle trimmed down, but they always look bad(to fisherman), they just might match what your fish need to strike.

This is a hobby of improve on the fly, so to say. Pun intended.



#6 Poopdeck

Poopdeck

    You damn kids, get off my lawn!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,816 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:29 PM

I rarely use every material exactly as it's been called for in some recipe. If I have everything great. If I don't then I don't blink an eye at using something else. It really does not matter unless for some weird reason your tying flies to put in a frame with a brass plate paying homage to it.

#7 mikechell

mikechell

    I LOVE SNOW ITS SO FLUFFY!!!!!!!

  • Super Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,738 posts

Posted 03 November 2016 - 11:25 PM

Is it fine to make a good or close substitution on a fly?

Nope.

You must adhere, with religious fervor, to the original materials and proportions.

Anything else is an abomination and an affront to every fish that takes it.

 

If you deviate from the established materials and patterns, you MUST ...

1) offer a blood sacrifice to every fish caught, (especially those that poke you with a fin, etc.).

2) release every fish caught that you don't want to keep.

3) refuse to tell anyone what pattern you are catching the fish on.

4) avert your eyes when a "real" fly tier walks by.  (You'll know a "real" fly tier by the golf-like attire and the fact that the only part of the face you'll see is nose hair because it's stuck in the air.)

5) take pictures and only post them here, so the rest of us know how NOT to tie the abominable, offensive mess.

 

Oh ... and if I haven't said it already, welcome to the site.


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#8 Cold

Cold

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 618 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:17 AM

.



#9 Al Beatty

Al Beatty

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,569 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:46 AM

We think mikechell may be onto something! <G> but we have to admit that for many years we stocked only 2 hook styles in a range of sizes. They were a standard dry fly hook similar to a Mustad 94840 and a streamer hook similar to a Mustad 9672. During the 80s customers became more particular what hook style we tied their flies on and we increased the range of hook styles. As commercial tiers, we often have materials left over from orders and the flies in our personal boxes tend to show that because at times they look like a real "hodge podge" mixture of colors and materials. Take care & ...


Tight Lines - Gretchen & Al Beatty
www.btsflyfishing.com

#10 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,363 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:48 AM

hooks

 

if a recipe calls for a tiemco 2487 scud style hook and i dont have it but i have an equivalent in another brand thats what i'll use

 

over the years i have gotten away from the $$$ priced hooks


The fish care less than we do!


#11 Kentuckysteve

Kentuckysteve

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 489 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:35 AM

I watch most tying videos just to get a general idea how it's tied then i change whatever to make it work for me.

 

I guess it's great if you can tie a fly to the Exact specs and to be perfect but that's not me.I tie flies for me and i don't let it bother me if someone don't like it or if it's not perfect.Very few flies today are originals and not variants of something so a lot of fly tiers must think just like i do.

 

If you want to change to a different hook or switch a color or use foam instead of feather it's ok to do so.The fly tying police are not coming to get you.Some folk's may frown on the idea but it's their problem not your's.You are the Master of your fly tying world.Tie whatever you want.


There is no greater fan of fly fishing........Than the worm. -  Patrick F. McManus


#12 RickZieger

RickZieger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 642 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 03:05 PM

I use the hook I think will be best for my area. May use the same color of some sort of dubbing or change the color to one that works better here.

Not a purist. 

 

Rick



#13 DrVette

DrVette

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 942 posts

Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:35 PM

On hooks...It is more important to have the right size than it is all the styles. Heavy hook for nymphs and streamers and lighter wire for dries (i tend to tie dries on heavies because i have so many). Just examine what you need to tie to match your waters and go from there.



#14 retrocarp

retrocarp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,076 posts

Posted 05 November 2016 - 03:52 AM

 

Is it fine to make a good or close substitution on a fly?

Nope.

You must adhere, with religious fervor, to the original materials and proportions.

Anything else is an abomination and an affront to every fish that takes it.

 

If you deviate from the established materials and patterns, you MUST ...

1) offer a blood sacrifice to every fish caught, (especially those that poke you with a fin, etc.).

2) release every fish caught that you don't want to keep.

3) refuse to tell anyone what pattern you are catching the fish on.

4) avert your eyes when a "real" fly tier walks by.  (You'll know a "real" fly tier by the golf-like attire and the fact that the only part of the face you'll see is nose hair because it's stuck in the air.)

5) take pictures and only post them here, so the rest of us know how NOT to tie the abominable, offensive mess.

 

Oh ... and if I haven't said it already, welcome to the site.

 

Nice one Mike :)


Nick


#15 Crackaig

Crackaig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,270 posts

Posted 05 November 2016 - 04:03 AM

Ask yourself why has a particular hook / material been used? If it is, for example, a dry fly you are looking at tying, the pattern  will probably call for a light gauge hook. This is because it is difficult to make steel float. Another dry fly hook similar in size will work fine. If it calls for Roe Deer and you only have Red Deer hair you will get away with using that, but you would not get away with using squirrel. Once you understand the properties of materials like this you will be able to select appropriate replacement materials when you need to. It all boils down to asking the right question. "Why has this material / hook been used?"

 

Cheers,

C.


"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end"