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barrel rolling woolly bugger

fly tying woolly bugger

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28 replies to this topic

#16 wr1nkles

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:56 AM

When you're doing the palmering ... do you wrap the last two or three twist on top on each other?  I'm wondering if those last few wraps on top of each other can offset the twisting action.

 

attachicon.gif spin.jpg

 

Just conjecture.

 

I do not. Maybe that's my problem... I'll give that a try on my next batch of buggers.

Thanks Mike!

 

I also always use a loop knot with streamers, as well as tippet rings but I think I'll replace it with a small swivel to try and combat this.


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#17 mikechell

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:15 AM

I do my buggers in the "hackle back - wire forward" method. 

Tie in a length of wire at the back.  The last two steps are to tie in an palmer the hackle from front to back.  Then using the wire, wrap forward to secure the hackle.  Then tie off the hackle and finish.  Doing it this way, the FIRST two wraps are on top of each other, then in a spiral back to the wire.

 

It's probably on the database here ... but on the work network, I don't have full access.

 

This is the video from "Fly Fish Food" showing the method.


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#18 flytire

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:01 PM

What does the actual fly look like? Maybe there's something we could help out with

Most fishermen use the double haul to throw their casting mistakes further - Lefty Kreh


#19 Gene L

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:44 PM

Went informally  bass fishing a couple of weeks ago: two of us, one rod.  My buddy was using a flopper-popper.  When it hit the water, it rotated, I suppose from tippet twist.  It was a 3X tippet.



#20 tjm

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:25 PM

Is the cup of the palmer towards the eye or towards the bend? It seems to me that one way works better than the other



#21 wr1nkles

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:56 AM

What does the actual fly look like? Maybe there's something we could help out with

 

I'll try to upload a pic of them soon. They are identical to the video tutorial: https://youtu.be/7Ku1-lnkKzI

 

Is the cup of the palmer towards the eye or towards the bend? It seems to me that one way works better than the other

 

The concave side is facing toward the bend.

 

 

 

Any tips on keeping the marabou tail from fouling (i think thats the right term) around the hook? Can I tie it down further into the bend, or maybe put wraps under the tail?


My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.


#22 feathers5

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:27 AM

Put a small loop of heavy tippet to extend out over the bend of the hook  and tie it down as the first step in tying the fly. I guess extend it about a 1/4" or so over the bend.

 

Also, I think you need to tie it to a heavier tippet. Other than that really stiff hackle could be the only other reason it's twirling on you. JMO



#23 flytire

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:30 AM

a tail of marabou that is one hook shank long should not foul

 

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do not tie down the bend

 

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Most fishermen use the double haul to throw their casting mistakes further - Lefty Kreh


#24 DarrellP

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 05:57 AM

Stiff hackle would be my guess.
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#25 Dave G.

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 06:37 AM

What's a kettle pond?  I've never heard that name before.

https://en.wikipedia...ttle_(landform)


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#26 Dave G.

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 07:20 AM

Tie it with hen hackle and use 1x or 2x leader/ tippet. I think the rattier and webby looking a hen hackle you use the better the fish like it, seriously. And if it's too short then use two. Don't be afraid to put a bit of a collar on your woolly buggers. I bought a grizzly hen cape from a grab box of basically rejects for $5 in a fly shop one time and used that specifically for buggers, the fish go bonkers for it. I'm just saying this works well not that it's a traditional tie. FWIW I fish them mostly on sinking line and use a short piece of 12lb test line with an 8lb tippet on that. Fish are no where near as line shy sub surface as they are up near the surface film.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#27 rstaight

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 07:29 AM

I have had great results with the Whiting bugger packs.

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#28 tjm

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 04:00 PM

Just reread this, and I think the twist problem is in the leader/tippet- either too long or too small or too limp, all of which let the fly over power the leader. Most leader and tippet rules are devised for fishing dry trout flies and may work for smaller wets or nymphs but in my opinion have no use in streamer fishing- in dry fly presentation it is desirable to have a soft slack tippet with just enough stiffness in the leader to turn the fly over, this increases the chance of a drag free float- a good thing in dry fly fishing.

But in casting a streamer, I want just about the opposite; I want definite fast turn over and tight snap down of fly (for quick sink) into the water with zero slack or just enough slack to allow an upstream aerial mend.

I find the leader needs to be generally 30% shorter and two X sizes heavier than is used for dry trout fly work to suit me.  I use similar leaders for bass dry flies. In any section of  the leader taper, shorter makes stiffer, so shortening a mid section can turn a dry leader into a better wet leader.

Although a #12 is trout dry fly size and smaller than I use for woolly buggers, the heavily palmered construction gives it a bass bug profile and I would try it with 2x-0X tippet with 6'-7' over all leader made of stiffer material. I typically fish buggers on 8# Maxima.

I also believe that all my leader twists have happened on the casting side of things, back casts and false casts seem to add to any tippet deficiency. Just my thoughts, ymmv



#29 tidewaterfly

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 01:03 AM

Just read this thread and you've gotten some excellent suggestions. One not mentioned is change the hook style. That round bend hook is typical for buggers, but a hook with more gap will help keel the fly better. I had a similar problem with a size # 2 foam stonefly pattern, it would twist like crazy and always landed on it's back. The problem was the wing on the fly, which after clipping it off, solved the twisting issue, but not the landing on it's back completely. I was using a round bend style streamer hook, which is often used on that type of pattern. I was using the fly for bass, so a hook with a wider gap, wasn't a bad thing. 

 

Try a hook like Gamakatsu B10S, Tiemco 8089, or Allen B200. 

 

IMO, the issue is in your casting and tippet size, but everything mentioned should resolve the problem. I use bulk line as tippet for bass, and was using 15 lb that day with that foam fly, so I was sure it wasn't my tippet being too light. 

 

BTW, if you ever decide to tie moth, damsel or dragonfly adult patterns, because of the manner that wings are often added, they're notorious for causing spinning & twisting while casting, so the issue you're having is not anything new. 







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