Pike Streamer Head Buoyancy

[bigsky2 0]

I have been tying up a bunch of flies for an upcoming pike trip to Canada. Since it has been winter here, I hadn't been able to test any of my flies until this past weekend. I went out Saturday and tried each different style to see how they would swim. The big tube flies and EP fiber baitfish all sat and floated nearly horizontal in the water in between strips. When I would strip in the deceivers and rabbit strip type flies, the heads would sink in between strips. This doesn't look very natural to me, do you think it will bother the fish? I have never fished a deceiver before, is this what they are supposed to do in the water? I was wondering if I wasn't using enough of the thicker, more buoyant pieces of bucktail, or maybe my hooks are too heavy. I have been tying most of these flies on 3/0 Partridge Universal Predator X hooks. Maybe these flies are just meant to be stripped faster so the head doesn't have a chance to sink, or maybe it doesn't matter to the fish if they swim this way. Let me know what you all think.

[mikechell 0]

Just an observation on my part, but when a bait fish is dying, it tries to swim down. The only bait fish that STAYS on top, is one that is almost dead.

Top water presentations can sit still for minutes, and work very well fished slowly like that. You are imitating an injured bait fish in the "final moments".

Any other "healthier" fish will avoid staying on top (a very vulnerable position) and thus, will swim downwards.

 

Anything you are going to strip at higher speeds, will be imitating healthier fish, and so, a downward action on the pause is actually more natural than sitting still on top.

 

Unless you're mimicking a frog, they can sit on top or dive, so either presentation works in frog colors.

[agn54 0]

I mostly agree with Mike, except that a fish will stay on top if it is stunned as well. In fact a stunned fish regaining "consciousness" can trigger strikes as an easy prey is getting away, the same way speeding up a retrieve when you see a fish following your fly can. But if you are using a twitch/pause retrieve, then you probably are imitating a fish in its last moments.

 

I find that deceivers work bets when kept in motion rather with long pauses though others may disagree. It's the movement of the fly that gets the feathers in action. I like the downward action on some flies and the horizontal slow fall on others, which is why I get a kick when people say there is only one way to place the eyes on a clouser. I move the eyes all ofer the shank for various types of falls. The rabbit will likely dive because the hide absorbs water and makes it sink. Most of my rabbit flies dive anyways. However this one sinks slowly and horizontally. It uses Finn raccoon fur cut from the hide and works great with long pauses

 

[FIN-ITE 34 0]

What you observed is pretty much how those flies will swim. The tubes tied as you did will pretty much stay neutral buoyant and suspend. They tend to shuck and jive left and right when stripped and stopped. That's what I like about them, as they suspend all that material just undulates in the water.

The heaver deceivers I find are a little more nose heavy and will pop up and dip down when the strip is stopped.

Two different actions for two different ties. Tie an articulated deceiver and you will get yet another action. All good.

[whatfly 0]

Considering that bass spinnerbaits are a favorite conventional lure for pike, I imagine some diving lures might come in handy.

[Philly 0]

Other than the hook there really isn't much weight to a deceiver, I tie buck tail deceivers and because of the weight of the head, UV resin&eyes, they will nose down, but for pike I use a fast strip with no pause, unless I've got a pike following it that I can see then I'll pause and the fly will start to sink head first. Get a lot of takes doing that.

Don't fish a lot of tube flies the ones I do are all top waters. With the bait fish patterns, it depends on how you finish the part of the body that covers the hook shank. I was using CCG Hydro on the shank part of he body to hold the shape and just enough UV resin to cover the eyes. What this does is cause an air pocket to form under the CCG Hydro and the fly would float head up when it hit the water. If I stripped it in while the bubble was still there the fly would suspend floating straight up. After a few casts the bubble would go away and the fly would sink. Though on the Ontario lake I fish when I go up there the pike like a fast retrieve.

[tidewaterfly 0]

I've tied & used Deceivers extensively over the years chasing bass & saltwater species. It's a style that can be tied in different ways. I've also tied them on various styles of hooks, all of which affects the action. If you tie the tails a bit long and heavy, like with splayed saddle hackle or schlappen, it give's a different action than with hackle tied flat & shorter. I've primarily tied them on O'Shaughnessy style saltwater hooks, but have used shorter shank live bait hooks at times. That difference provides a slightly different action too.

 

Being a style, and as agn54 has pointed out, the materials used can create differences in the flies action.

 

Then, as others have pointed out, how fast you retrieve them is going to give them a different action. One other thing that can affect the action is your tippet connection. For the fishing I do with them, I almost always use a loop connection.

 

If you find that slower retrieve to be productive, then whether or not they appear "natural" to you makes no difference. Actually, what you describe is what Clouser Minnows do, a nose down jigging action & when properly tied, they'll have the jigging motion & gliding as they're retrieved. Both fly styles have been around a long time & with good cause, they work very well.

 

Fact is, "jigs" are one of the most productive lures in existence, so why not a fly that has a similar motion when retrieved?

 

If you get the chance, post some pics of your flies, as we all like seeing fly pics!