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Photo

Dahlberg diver flips over during retrieve


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19 replies to this topic

#1 patze003

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:02 PM

Hi all,

 

I am trying to figure out why my Dahlberg keeps flipping over during the retrieve. I am using a size 2 B10s which I think should carry enough weight on the underside. Typically the tail is a little flash and 4 neck hackles. I do layer quite a bit of different colors on the top side as I am building up the deer hair to get a tight pack and nice color blend. Perhaps it is holding too much water and flipping over.

 

Thoughts?



#2 vicente

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:05 PM

Holding water would just make it neutral in the water, more than likely it's a trimming issue.

#3 mikechell

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:03 AM

As usual, people ask about a problem with a fly without a picture.  It's almost impossible for us to help without a visual of the fly as it's tied.

 

We can give you dozens of reasons why a fly WOULD flip over, and still not actually give the reason YOURS does.

 

Can you post some pictures?  Please?


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
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#4 Capt Bob LeMay

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 06:04 AM

While waiting for pics - I try to razor away as much of the underside as possible... If you have a lot of hair on the underside of the hook it will hurt the action.  An extra plus to clearing away as much as possible on the underside of the hook at the head is that it makes it easier to pick up and cast again with a Diver.. 

 

Hope this helps


Tight lines Bob LeMay (954) 435-5666

#5 patze003

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:55 PM

Here are the pics

Attached Thumbnails

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  • 8F1AFD55-3E55-4C4C-B1F7-5CBD0B1E68D2.jpeg


#6 Bruce Derington

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 02:34 PM

Try coating bottom of fly with some flex coat, it helps keel fly and offset the water saturation from top section

Bruce Derington


#7 mikechell

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:52 PM

Well done with the pack and stack density.  It's a good looking diver.

Observations:

1.  The hook is not big enough for the amount of hair you've used.  Or, you've used too much hair for the size of the hook.

2.  Your straight line cut along the bottom ... isn't.  It curves downward near the hook.

 

I think the amount of hair is more the cause than the curve in the trimming.


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#8 patze003

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 10:36 PM

Well done with the pack and stack density.  It's a good looking diver.
Observations:
1.  The hook is not big enough for the amount of hair you've used.  Or, you've used too much hair for the size of the hook.
2.  Your straight line cut along the bottom ... isn't.  It curves downward near the hook.
 
I think the amount of hair is more the cause than the curve in the trimming.


Thanks for the helpful feedback. Do you think I should use less hair, or can I just trim it down more in the future?

#9 mikechell

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 10:48 PM

Search for images of Dahlberg Divers.  You'll see that many of them, the trimmed hair ends at the collar.  There's little or nothing trimmed after it.  The ones that have more trimmed hair, also have much larger hooks.

 

It's all about the proportions.  As I said earlier, yours looks great, I just don't think there's enough hook to "keel" the amount of hair.


Barbed hooks rule!
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Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#10 flytire

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 07:13 AM

having never tied or used a dahlberg diver it would only be speculation on whats causing the actual problem and it probably would be wrong :)


The fish care less than we do!


#11 Capt Bob LeMay

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

As noted by Mike... All the ones I tie have the spun and clipped head - ending at the collar.  Looks to me as though the way it's done the "collar" portion of the head is a bit forward from where you want it.  Mind you - all of mine have a wire weedguard so they simply won't roll over.  You might try on your next one to move the collar slightly to the rear - and end any deerhair just behind the collar except for maybe a bit of bucktail allowed to lay back on the rest of the body... 

 

One other thing I used to point out when I was teaching (saltwater tying only...) was that the fish are your ultimate judges... If fish attack - even if it isn't doing what the pattern is supposed to... that's a great bug.  If the fish ignore - or turn away from it - then use something else and if you keep that bug - do it as a decoration somewhere... 

 

Hope this helps...


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#12 Flicted

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 08:50 AM

Less hair would not be good advice when spinning deer hair. But you could clip the head more. I think they look a little too "blunt". Maybe trim them to a longer head and make the collar a tad shorter. Make the bottom more flat like Mike suggested and you might be good. It dives and that is the important part. What it looks like under the surface is probably more important to you than a bass.

#13 SILKHDH

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:10 AM

This happens a lot.    Size 1/0 fly tied on a size 2 hook.  Your hair skills look good, just a fly to hook size problem.  This happens a lot with small dry flies tied by beginners too.  Hey, we learn from our mistakes too. I know I did.  I bet your next set of Dahlberg  Divers come out great! 



#14 Mike West

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 10:24 AM

D3870-E40-0-FA1-476-D-AF5-C-BB37-C83-F63
1. There shouldnt be any deer hair to the left of the arrow.
From the point of the hook back should just be your tailing materials. All the deer hair should start at the point and move forward to the eye.

2. The hair is not trimmed symmetrical to the center line of the hook. Especially the diving collar.
My guess from what I can tell in the pics,this why its roiling on you.

Edit: Ill chime in on what others mentioned. Yes they tend to work better trimmed smaller/narrower.
What I do to make sure its symmetrical and balanced is to turn the fly upside down holding it in your hand
and take a DOUBLE EDGED razor blade and shave the belly straight back from the eye to the back as close to the hook shank as you can with out cutting your thread wraps.

Now take your scissors and cut an arrow shape front to back making sure you have the same amount of hair on each side of the hook shank..this 1st should only be 1/8 deep or less until you make sure the shape is prefect. Now take some curved scissors and follow that cut as a guide around the rest of the bug.
Some guys can or freehand the whole thing with a double edge razor blade.

Yours ago I used to make a template out of poster board.
Just cut out you basic popper or diver head shape lay it flat on your trimmed belly and trim away.

#15 TheCream

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 12:43 PM

I think Mike has a point about where the deer hair needs to stop.  The B10S shank does start to bend down when you get past the hook point, assuming the hook is level in the vise when you look at it.  This is one reason I almost never tie a diver on a B10S, I feel like the shank is just a hair too short and I end up with "stubby" headed divers.  I prefer a diver to be a little more sleek and streamlined.  I usually tie them on Gama SP11-3L3H hooks which have a little longer shank, but a slightly narrower gap.  I think that's the other thing that sticks out to me with the bug posted, a B10S has a pretty big gap and there's not as much of it showing as I'd expect.  Getting the belly more flush to the shank and keeping the hair in front of the hook point would probably help.  You're relying on the weight of the hook to help keel the fly, and having too much hair over the belly side of it will negate some of that.  Something else I didn't see mentioned was try trimming the bug slimmer, or another way to say it would be less wide.  Take some off the sides.  I'd personally never tell anyone to use less hair, but trimming more away could help.  Using less hair will result in less density, less density more water absorption, this leads to a less durable and less floaty bass bug.  I don't like either of those things.

 

Here's one I did on an SP11-3L3H hook.  It's level shank goes to about the barb instead of the hook point like the B10S.  Hard to see the gap from this angle but the gap on this hook is narrower than the B10S and there's a lot of gap trimmed out.

 

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