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Thickening head cement


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24 replies to this topic

#16 Rocco

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 12:54 AM

A related question but at the other end of the scale.

 

How do get really hardened Hard as Nails out of the jars with the screw on tops and steel pin inserts for distributing the HaN?

 

I have several of those useless jars around somewhere here.

 

Rocco



#17 JSzymczyk

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 09:31 AM

Ethyl Acetate.    I have never seen it, straight Ethyl Acetate with no other added crap, in hardware stores or pharmacies or anywhere.  I have got it from BioQuip.com as a dispatching agent for use in killing jars for entomology studies.  I like my stuff to multi-task. 


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#18 Dave G.

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 03:54 PM

I use SHAN for head cement and as a thinner use Nail Polish Remover, which I think is acetone.  Works just fine.  Goop uses a different thinner, can't recall the name off-hand, but it's I believe dry cleaner fluid...also available at your local hardware.

 

Generally I find head cement such a microscopic part of fly tying I don't really care...it all works just fine. I'd think carefully before I spend the $$$$ on clear lacquer, which admittedly will last for a lifetime for a pint.  Still, the drugstore at a buck with a brush applicator is hard to beat.

Gene, I do the same as you. My wife has a big bottle of pure acetate nail polish remover.Seems to work fine with SHHAN. It appears it will be fine in Rumpf as well or any Nitrocellulose based head cement or nail polish. It might accelerate the drying time a little bit. Actually the Rumpf and Acetone smell alike more so than Sally's and acetone do.


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#19 DDC52

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 07:22 AM

A good head cement can be made by thinning Goop with Xylene.

#20 DDC52

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 07:35 AM

A good head cement can be made by thinning Goop with Xylene.

#21 SilverCreek

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:12 AM



Okay, you asked for it ... well, maybe you didn't.  But I just hurt my eyes reading the tiny print on three bottles of clear fingernail "stuff".

All three bottles are from "L.A. Colors", whoever that is.  (Made in China, of course)

 

"Rapid Dry: Topcoat"

Ethyl acetate ... butyl acetate ... nitrocellulose ... adapic acid ... neopentyl glycol ... trimellitic anhydride copolymer ... acetyl tributyl citrate ... isopropyl alcohol ... sucrose benzoate ... benzophenone-3 ... trimethylpentanedyl dibenzoate ... polyvynyl butyral ... violet-2

 

"Base coat/Top coat"

Ethyl acetate ... butyl acetate ... isopropyl alcohol ... nitrocellulose ... trimellitic anhydride ... phithalic anhydride ... glycols copolymer ... acetyl tributyl citrate ... adapic acid ...fumeric acid ... phithalic acid ... tricyclodecane dimethanol copolymer ...benzophenone-1 ... violet-2

 

"Ultranail Hardener"

Ethyl acetate ... butyl acetate ... isopropyl alcohol ... nitrocellulose ... phithalic anhydride ... trimellitic anhydride ... glycols copolymer ... acetyl tributyl citrate ... adapic acid ...fumeric acid ... phithalic acid ... tricyclodecane dimethanol copolymer ...benzophenone-1

 

There are slight differences in the formulas ... and at least one ingredient that is different from the other two or completely unique to just one.  The "Rapid Dry" has the highest number of unique ingredients.

 

I am going to test them against each other.  I am not timing the drying time or anything, just doing one coat, two coats and three coats on paper to see if they look any different.  But right now, I can say that the "Rapid Dry" has soaked into the paper the fastest.

 

Thanks Mike. As I predicted the first 2 ingredients in all three nail polishes are Ethyl Acetate and Butyl Acetate which are also the first two ingredients of Hard as Hull (The ingredients of Hard as Hull are Ethyl Acetate, N-butyl Acetate, Isopropyl Alcohol, Nitrocellulose, N-butyl Alcohol, and Camphor).

 

Beauty Secrets Nail Polish Thinner ingredients are Butyl Acetate, Ethyl Acetate, and Heptane.

 

The reason I recommend Nail polish thinner is that it contains very same chemicals as nail polish. Because nail salon workers are exposed to nail polish fumes all day, Butyl Acetate, Ethyl Acetate, and Heptane  are safer than Acetone. They are also less volatile and your head cement will last longer.

 

Read up on Ethyl Acetate and Butyl Acetate below. Both are found naturally in foods and Butyl Acetate ( N-butly Acetate) is even used as a flavoring in food.

 

Ethyl acetate - Wikipedia   "Ethyl acetate is used primarily as a solvent and diluent, being favored because of its low cost, low toxicity, and agreeable odor."

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Butyl_acetate    "Butyl acetate is found in many types of fruit, where along with other chemicals it imparts characteristic flavors and has a sweet smell of banana or apple. It is used as a synthetic fruit flavoring in foods such as candy, ice cream, cheeses, and baked goods."

 

Beauty Secret Thinner also smells better unless you like huffing acetone. Notice that acetone is NOT an ingredient in nail polish! Acetone will thin head cement but it is not as safe as Beauty Secrets Thinner. Plus you get 8 times the thinner (4 oz. vs 0.5 oz) compared to the Hard as Hull thinner.

 

Do yourself a favor. Beauty Secrets Nail Polish thinner is less than $5 the last time I bought a bottle.


Regards,

Silver

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#22 flyty1

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 01:25 PM

As always, Henry has a very authoratative and scholarly answer...better living through chemistry!!!

#23 mikechell

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:02 PM

 

 

 

Thanks Mike.  

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Butyl_acetate    "Butyl acetate is found in many types of fruit, where along with other chemicals it imparts characteristic flavors and has a sweet smell of banana or apple. It is used as a synthetic fruit flavoring in foods such as candy, ice cream, cheeses, and baked goods."

You're welcome.

 

Sooo ... if you DON'T have any "Beauty Secrets Nail Polish Thinner" ... you can use " ... candy, ice cream, cheeses, and baked goods." to thin your nail polish, since they have Butyl Acetate in them !!!

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#24 Poopdeck

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 08:51 PM

The non scholarly answer is just throw it away and get another bottle.

#25 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:42 PM

I have had great results with Fly-Tite.  It can be thinned with denatured alcohol - but goes years without needing any thinning in a squeeze bottle or needle jar.

 

Though I am getting fond of the Loon UV cements.


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