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Are shrimp eyes a necessity


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#1 caloosa bug

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 07:44 AM

So, I plan on tying a few shrimp patterns for my next trip to pine island or choko.  I'm still a salt virgin with the fly rod, but I'm all about using whatever means necessary for a fly to be the best imitation possible. Do the eyes really matter that much? I've done a few with mono in the past, but again are they really necessary? 



#2 Piker20

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 07:59 AM

Ummm, I do feel eyes give fish a focal point of attack when they are aggressive fish. Most salt species are and I notice when you can watch them in clear water they typically attack the 'head' of a lure first.
The question now is, how big do you make your eyes? I don't believe the fish really think our imitations are real shrimp, but the give enough movement and general appearance to trick an attack.
So so you make your eyes large as a trigger or aim for a subtle look? I like using lumi seed beads glued on mono which are fairly large in relation to the hook.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#3 Permitcapt

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:30 AM

I love that question!  Many have pondered it before you and I also.  I make eyes by the hundreds at a sitting, and I use them on most of my patterns whether for myself or my customers. I use them because I like the way that they look on a shrimp, or a crab, or a baitfish. Whether they improve the efficacy of the pattern or not, I am not certain, but I think so, and I hope so. When a target fish wants to eat I don't think that eyes make a difference. When a target fish doesn't want to eat, I don't think that eyes make a difference. When a target fish is not sure whether it wants to eat or not, eyes might make a difference.

 

My recipe for eyes is:  Cut mono or fluorocarbonin 1 inch strips in whatever diameter you like. My favorite is usually around 20# so it is stiff enough, but not too thick to add bulk to the thread wraps. Then I touch it too a candle flame to ignite it. Then poke the burning end into a solid object like a table top or anything you choose. It will now have a widened and flat end. String a #8 bead, your color of choice, on the strip. Lastly, dip the bead into Solarez thick UV resin and hit it with the light. All done, and beautiful.

 

 

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#4 Bimini15

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:10 PM

They make a difference to me.
I think that the contrast of the black eye is a distinct feature of the shrimp. I feel like, if I do not tie eyes, I am not selling the pattern well enough. I am afraid the fish is going to notice something is off and turn around at the last second. Assuming that a fish got close enough to my fly to notice, which, lately, is a big assumption.
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#5 caloosa bug

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:21 PM

Awesome info! Thanks everyone. I guess I'll be making some eyes. I was just waiting on someone to say,  "I don't bother with eyes, and I catch fish all the time".  Looks like the consensus is to go ahead and add them.

 

Another question is what are productive color combos?  I know the brown and tan hues are popular, along with small amounts of red possibly. What about white or black? 



#6 Bimini15

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:28 PM

I like pink.
I used to catch a lot of sea trout on pink and white. Not only on shrimp patterns.
Bimini15

#7 Swamp Fly

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:57 PM

I'm sure there are times that fish care and times they don't.  A fish that is hungry is just looking for an excuse, it'll grab anything that is close.  Lock jaw is lock jaw.  I think it's on the fence fish it makes the most difference to.  I agree that eyes give a focal point, hence many fish have eye spots on their south bound end to distract would be predators.  I tend to put eyes on most of my flies just as much because it gives ME confidence in the fly.  I'll fish a fly a lot longer and better if I have confidence in it, lets face it we usually give our best if we think we have a chance.  What form that eye takes is variable, paint, stick on barbell, beads, bead chain etc all work for me.  A black head on a streamer looks a lot like an eye, especially on a light/bright colored fly.

 

How is The Lake fishing after the hurricane?



#8 Kudu

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:42 PM

I like them. I make them similar to capt. Permit but I don't use a bead. I burn the mono end into a ball then dip into ccg or equivalent, set with light then into paint and then dip in resin again and set. Permits method sounds faster.

#9 caloosa bug

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 03:47 PM

 

 

How is The Lake fishing after the hurricane?

 

I hear it's still pretty good. It's really high and still rising though. I haven't been out on the lake since the storm.. mainly because of snook season. I've been on the river the last few weeks catching a bunch of nice bass, but no snook yet. 



#10 Poopdeck

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 05:32 PM

I fish a lot of streamers but never a shrimp pattern. Sometimes I put eyes on and sometimes I don't. I don't see a difference with streamers with big fat eyes or no eyes. I doubt little bitty shrimp eyes adds anything to the pattern other then anglers want shrimp patterns with eyes. But, if you think there is even the slightest chance of it producing better then an eyeless shrimp then add them just because it can't hurt and confidence in the pattern is very important.

#11 agn54

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 06:13 PM

I have no idea if they make a difference or not but they certainly aren't necessaary on all patterns. There are plenty of patterns like Chico Fernandez's snapping shrimp don't use them and catch the hell out of fish. I use them on most of mine because I like how they look. Personally I think it's the overall movement of the fly rather than any one aspect that triggers the bite, but I'm just guessing.

#12 cphubert

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 08:23 PM

I use gold seed beads on mono for my grass shrimp patterns I read a article years ago that when the grass shrimp are alive their eye's are gold and turn black after they die. I don't know if it completely true but I have seen pictures of them with gold eye's and it helps my confidence level when fishing them. Don't have a clue if eyeless would be the same.



#13 Swamp Fly

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:08 PM

Thanks Caloosa.  I had actually hoped to mess around on the lake in a week or two.  I finally get the tabs on the boat to work and then my Lowrance goes down on the shake down cruise. 



#14 Piker20

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:01 AM

I use gold seed beads on mono for my grass shrimp patterns I read a article years ago that when the grass shrimp are alive their eye's are gold and turn black after they die. I don't know if it completely true but I have seen pictures of them with gold eye's and it helps my confidence level when fishing them. Don't have a clue if eyeless would be the same.


I wonder if that's why my lumi bead ones out fish black ones when ever I try them.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.