Jump to content
Fly Tying
Bryon Anderson

Making deer hair bass bugs durable

Recommended Posts

I searched the forum on this topic and found a good discussion from 2011 that answered some of my questions and turned me on to a new product to try (Liquid Fusion) to make my bugs generally more waterproof and durable.

 

However, I have a specific question that I didn't see addressed in that thread, and I haven't been able to find too much to answer it elsewhere, either, hence this post. What I'm wondering is how does one secure deer hair to the hook so that it stays put?

 

I use good quality deer belly hair and 200 denier GSP thread, and I put enough pressure on the thread when tying in my hair that I stop just short of cutting through the hair. I secure each bunch with a couple of half-hitches and pack it as tightly as I can with a Fugly Packer. My bugs come from the vice looking good (to me), and seem pretty tightly packed. Even doing all of that, though, it's always possible to rotate the hair body around the hook shank with a little pressure, and, once they become waterlogged from fishing, you can rotate the bodies with very little pressure.

 

So...what am I missing? Should I be adding cement or glue of some kind to the thread as I go along? I tried that once, and the hair soaked up the cement and was ruined, however I was using generic super glue when I did that. I can't believe I'm not tying in the hair tightly enough--like I said, any tighter and the thread cuts right through the hair.

 

Here's a photo of one of my bugs, if that helps at all.

 

post-36073-0-68212900-1406908225_thumb.jpg

 

 

Thanks as always for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

Bryon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am interested to see what becomes of this post since I am just getting into spinning hair! BTW your fly looks great!!!!

 

I went to Fly Fishing Expo back in June and one of the instructors of a class that me and my son attended I believe he used Liquid Fusion. I think he used it for gluing on the eyes on a fly that was using synthetic hair. He like the product because he said that it gave him time to get the eyes positioned correctly using super glue did not allow that to happen. If I remember correctly I think he said it dried in a hour or so but I maybe mistaken on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol add, between my replies to your earlier posts about working with hair and the appearance of this post, you should conclude that knowing how a thing is done is not the same as knowing how to do it! smile.png I'm just another pilgrim searching for The Way...

 

Thanks for the compliment on my bug--they look good enough for me, now I just need to know how to make them last.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people say that you cannot put a thread base on the hook when doing deer hair poppers. Actually from what I have read, some of the experts DO put down a thread base on the hook shank before spinning or stacking hair. Gives the glue something to stick too. Also, after every bunch of hair you lay, you will pack the hair. Right? ok, pack it a couple times, then put some Zap-a-gap (CA type glue) on the hook shank right at the base of the hair you just packed. Like a drop. Now pack the hell out of it, pack, pack, pack, now hold the packer tight against the hair. Hold the pressure tight for a few seconds until the glue sets a little. Then release the pressure with your packer. This will fuse the hairs together. Actually to the point of even if the thread fails, the glue will hold the fly together. This is what Dave Whitlock does. If he isn't the expert on this I don't know who is. Zap-a-gap at the end of every packing. Pack and hold pressure, Then lay your next bunch of hair and repeat. I will say this. A finished fly in time might have the tendency to have the whole body of the bug to come loose and rotate on the hook shank. All I can say is to squirt some glue on it. I actually think it is the nature of the beast. As I told add147, you will get hair and glue build-up on your packer. You will need to clean off now and then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks SILKDH, I figured the missing element was probably glue or cement on the thread after each bunch of hair was tied in. Couple of questions--I know there are several different kinds of Zap-a-Gap now, is one better than the others for this application?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say that head cement will not have quite the same effect as CA glue. What I saw Dave Whitlock using was the old standard zap-a-gap. Not gel. I figured use what he does ,I can't go wrong. I'm sure others will be posting in with there experiences with glue on deer hair bugs. Warning! try to use it up quickly, I have had problems with returning to a bottle that I only used a little from to find the rest of the bottle has dried on me. Stuff isn't free. I see people use other CA glues but I swear I read or some thing that regular CA glue deteriorates in water. Zap-a-gap won't. I really don't know if that is true. I probably read it from a Zap-a-gap add. LOL.. A good post might be "CA glues are they all created equally?" Do they all work for flies? Crazy glue gel, loc-tite , bla bla bla. I want the science, not some Joe Blows opinion.

 

YO BRUCE DERINGTON!! what do you use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone here seen a Pat Cohen video. What type of glue does he put on his flies when packing. If any at all. I bet he does. I just went to Pat Cohen's sight and I see he sells Zap-a-gap. So I'll bet that's what he uses too. Not positive, but I'll bet. The product that Pat is selling is brush on zap-a-gap. I'm pretty sure it won't be thick like the gel. You want it so be absorbed into the hair somewhat. Not saturated. Although is see some will put glue on the faces/mouth/end of there poppers and also on the collars of Dahlberg divers to make them stiffer and more durable. I watched some where a guy stick his bottle of glue all over his collar on a diver, before final trimming. Made it stick up better, I guess. Never glued mine. I have a couple of purchased divers and no doubt the collars are saturated in some kind of glue. Makes the collar stiff as can be. I may some day go over my divers and glue saturate the collars on them. I think it might be the right thing to do actually.

 

Any opinions on this out there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CyanoAcrylate, or super glue.

 

Dave Duffy, a pretty fair deer hair popper tyer, puts a drop of head cement at the base of each bundle, after he has packed it, and before moving on to the next bundle.

 

If you are having problems with the deer hair moving, though, that suggests that there is still too much slack in your thread. I'd suggest using a 210 denier nylon. It has some stretch in it, meaning that you can pull it tighter, and it will try to draw back to it's original length. I know Dave doesn't use GSP, and I don't think Chris Helms does either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the video I watched, Pat just called in head cement. He'd squeeze a drop of it in there after every single bunch, both spun and stacked. The video I watched used to be on his blog and showed the process for a diver. It was made before he invented his Fugly Packer and he just used his fingers to pack. At that time, he had a regular head cement applicator bottle (long needle tip) and poked it in the hair to apply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

phg you're right, I think Chris Helm was using Uni "Big Fly" the last time I saw him tie, but that was years ago. I'd be curious to know his thoughts on GSP and whether he ever uses it. I can tell you for sure I'm putting the maximum pressure on the 200 denier thread - I know this because I cut through a lot of hair with it before I figured out what the maximum was. I do use the 210 denier Ultra-Thread for smaller bugs and for large streamers, etc., and I much prefer the feel of it exactly because it has some stretch as you said. I kept breaking it when I was trying to stack hair, that's why I switched to the GSP. Maybe I'll go back and give the 210 nylon another try. I actually really dislike using GSP anyway because it's so slick and so hard to cut with scissors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started tying deer hair bugs many years before there was such a thing as C/A....Yes you can spin hair on top of a thread base but I don't like to. I prefer to spin on a bare hook shank. Back then I would tie in a bunch. One half hitch only and pack. I then used my bodkin that was at least 1/16 of an inch at the level section and dipped the bodkin in the head cement and put a good sized drop of head cement at the base of each bunch. When the bug was completed I would rough trim the bug and let it sit to dry. I don't recall how long it took for the cement to dry but it was longer than overnight. The tie point became quite hard and I never had any problem with the hair turning on the hook shank. I could also trim the bottom of the bug quite close to shank with no fear of cutting into the thread. That tie in point was quite hard. I would assume Sally Hanson would do the same but I have not been so particular when tying hair bugs the last few years. ....BTW I still have a few of the old hair bugs I tied back then. I tended to no fish some of my early bugs because I did not trim them close enough and they were difficult to cast. A year or so ago I dug out the old bugs and trimmed them closer. They also were not packed as tight as I do now. You might try one bug as I have explained to see if it works for you. What have you got to lose? You might also try taking one of your currently finished bugs and turning it upside down and soak the shank/tie in point with SH. It may work just as well. Keep spinning...it sure is a lot of fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike, I was hoping for some one to reply that has seen one of Pat's videos. Things that make you go huh. Maybe all that money I've spent on half used bottles of Zap-a-gap has been in vain. Only get to use half because the other half dries up before you get to use it. I WILL say that CA glue sets quicker then head cement so you can move on to the next bundle of hair quicker. But if Pat does it that way, well it makes me wander if I need to buy another video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JUST IN!!! zap-a-gap is NOT water resistant. Go to my post of "CA glue are they all the same" and read Their own product description. So save some money and buy cheaper stuff.. I sure as heck am. Also I think I remember a video where a guy roughs up his hook shank with emery paper before he starts to apply material for better adhesion. That makes sense to me! I rough up all sorts of things before I glue them. Why not my hooks too. I am from now on. If I remember too. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...