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Is the FF Industry Sacrificing Ethics for the Hero Shot


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42 replies to this topic

#1 SilverCreek

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:15 AM

I don't know if this should be posted here under Fishing or in the Off Topic Section. Mods, please move or remove if inappropriate.

 

Editorial posted on a Blog:

 

http://www.sweetwate...-your-fishery/#


Regards,

Silver

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#2 mikechell

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:58 AM

I read this when it was posted on "the other site".  I'm just going to copy and paste my response here.

 

"Again ... someone writes an article blaming a specific segment of the population for the woes of the world. In this case, people looking to make some money from their love of fishing. You know what I see, in the pictures of people holding up a nice fish? I see a person holding a nice fish ... and, usually, an empty landscape behind them.

Some lament the decline in new anglers coming into the sport ...
Some of those same people then lament newer anglers coming into the sport ... if they're taking pictures of the fish?
 
The way I see it ... this is just another problem that boils down to ALL problems in the World.
There's just too damn many people."

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#3 iFly

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:17 AM

Somebody's jealous it sounds like. I get what he's trying to convey and I personally see way too many people hold fish out of water for way too long for the perfect picture (just a quick example), but he went to a great extent to call out a specific person and even look at online records for the tickets. 



#4 chugbug27

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:42 PM

I had the same initial reaction to the article, failing to see the difference ethically between the author who is a guide and the photographed visiting guide, re ethical differences in targeting spawning trout for profit. After all, I thought, if the author's a guide then he's doing much more harm to spawning trout in his home river than the activity did that he's complaining of... But then I looked up the author's website and, to my very happy surprise, he not only talks the talk but also walks the walk. He's one of the few guides I've seen on the web that openly discourages the targeting of spawning trout. So, +1 on the article for exposing that kind of nonsense, and big kudos to the author for his taking action and speaking out.
cb27

#5 tjm

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:58 PM

 

Ethics or moral philosophy is the branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct.

So, here we go; ethics are a matter of personal perspective just like religious or political philosophy.

Personally I think it is unethical to be a guide or hire a guide for fishing period.

If fishing is done commercially use a net and your professional knowledge.

If done as hobby, teach yourself and grow from the learning. Use of a guide may be self abuse; how can you ever know afterwards if the fish you caught was your fault or the guide's fault?

 

When braging time comes, is it ethical to say "my fish is bigger than.. " or to say "my guide is bigger than.." ?



#6 tjm

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:02 PM

Further, on the highest moral standard, is it at all ethical to catch fish you don't intend to eat?



#7 Bimini15

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:05 PM

Jealousy? I would say it is concern. Only he knows his true motivations, but I think he makes a point that most of us, the non lifestyle fly fishermen, can relate to.
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#8 Saltybum

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:42 PM

Man is the animal on this planet that destroys the house in which he lives.

While thinking about this for a bit...we could apply the scenario to many different aspects of life involving individuals feeling good about their accomplishments and advertising it or showing off as some call it. And for the most part there is always an angle argue about what or how much damage is being done to our society or environment in the process.

 

I've been on both sides of this coin ( commercial fishing lic. ) and looking at the current state of the planet I'm almost ashamed to admit to be part of the human race. As long as any kind of money is involved in any way it won't change, I think, before it's too late to change it.

 

In the mean time I'm looking forward to next month to enjoy crystal clear mountain creeks in NC because my local waters are poo brown and full of dying fish. It was on the news again last night.


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#9 Poopdeck

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:26 PM

Let it be known that poopdeck don't take pictures of fish. Why? Because I know what fish look like and I catch fish routinely. I must admit, I don't get the whole fish picture taking thing. Try posting a fishing report without pictures on a fishing forum. The first reply will be "where's the picture, it didn't happen without a picture." So........ pictures are accepted and demanded by the mainstream. I also don't get the whole hero worshipping thing. Sometimes I think I'm the only angler that does not know the name of one famous fishermen, nor do I "follow" anybody or desire others to "follow" me. As long as there are hero worshippers there will be hero status seekers and hero shots.

The author has an axe to grind and seeks his own piece of the hero pie. Although I do not support or defend rule breakers, I could care less about the authors definition of ethical fishing when he's part of the machine that promotes this behavior.

#10 steeldrifter

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:58 AM

Pictures of fish are part of what makes the memory. I can't tell you how many times I will thumb through my old printed out pics or go through online pictures I have posted years ago for no other reason than to just relive past trips & memories. The picture for me is more than just the fish. There's many pictures of me holding a fish where just the picture brings back memories of who I was fishing with, where we were, where we stayed at, just all sorts of good memories.

 

I have no problem with people taking fish pictures. People just need to use some common sense though. Don't hold the fish out of the water for long periods of time and handle it with care so that it can be released healthy. There are some people that go too far in that direction and make it sound like fish are made of glass and will suddenly turn to stone if they are removed from the water for even 3 seconds. There's a middle ground there and it is nothing more than just common sense handling.

 

Far as the article I think the more important things are the laws the guy broke and not whether or not he was fishing to fish on redds or anything such as that. It clearly states he was fishing in a closed section of river, plus he did not have the proper fishing license for where he was fishing. If the guy had not broke any laws then that would simply be a judgment call for the angler himself as to fishing to spawning fish and not the place for someone else to pass judgement on him. But he was in fact breaking two laws from the sounds of the article so he is in the wrong in that case.


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#11 chugbug27

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:20 AM

Here's that author's take on targeting spawners generally.
http://www.wyomingfi...wn_fishing.html

 

Edit: Link doesn't work, sorry.... 


cb27

#12 MouseManiac

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:35 AM

I agree there needs to be a balance, but I also always think people act like trout are far more sensitive than they are.  I recently fished a stocked put and take stream, as it was one of the only fishable places around me with all the rain we'd had.  I don't normally keep any fish, but in this scenario if it wasn't me, it would be the next guy keeping them or they'd die when it warmed anyways.  So we decided to keep a stringer of trout to eat.  While carrying the trout along with us the rest of the trip, they continued to swim and kick around for hours.  Even after having to hike a ways with them out of the water, they would swim again when they hit the water.  My point being, I think they are tougher than we give them credit for being.  

 

That being said, I'm careful not to keep them out of the water for long and wet my hands before touching them and all that when practicing catch and release.  I just think its all a little overblown sometimes...



#13 Limitless

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:39 AM

Holy smoke!  I had no idea about the diversity of opinions concerning new fly fishers, guides, pics, etc.  I am a new fly guy, so I assume I may be viewed as a challenge to the sport or as a problem over-crowder.  I am predominantly a salt water fisherman but looking forward to learning the trout fishing of my home waters here in Georgia and my cabin in western North Carolina.  I have served on the executive board of the Snook and Gamefish Foundation for several years, so I consider myself a strong conservationist.  That said, I plan to book a guide to learn trout fly fishing and also want a guide that will teach me the appropriate targeting, handling and release techniques.  I dont eat trout, but I do like to have a few pics for memories - as steeldrifter explained.  I hope to do it all the right way, but if I cant I'll just stick with Snook, Redfish, and the other salt water species that I know.

 

#14 chugbug27

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:21 AM

The strong opinions are just a product of cherishing the activity. I learned the basics from a guide in 1994 while on a hiking trip in Glacier National Park. Best $250 I ever spent, though at the time I spent it reluctantly. Now I grumble when I see guides on the river anywhere near me. I'm a hypocrite that way.
cb27

#15 SilverCreek

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 01:18 PM

It is apparent that I chose a very poor title for this post. I accept responsibility for that very poor choice.

 

Hero photos are a minor part of the editorial. The editorial is really about the ethics and illegal acts of a sponsored fly fisher. The editorial is  about the unethical and illegal acts that some will go to to GET the hero shot and freebies the hero shots elicite from sponsors. It is about monetizing hero shots and the consequences of that monetization; and to an extent, posting on social media. 

 

Targeting spawning fish is an ethical issue. What concerns me the most are the patently illegal acts of fishing without a license, fishing in a closed area, fishing without having his boat inspected for invasive species, and not purchasing an invasive species sticker.

 

My take is that the editorial was NOT about the number of fly fishers or crowding. The most egregious part was not an ethical lapse but the breaking 4 boating and fishing Wyoming laws.

 

Semi related threads are the one about guide Ronnie Kittredge, the infamous trout redd snagger and self title "Pro Trout" Guide on the South Holston River.

 

http://www.washingto...scussed.104299/

 

http://littleriverou...ged-on-the-SoHo

 

http://www.southeast...ger-t45442.html

 

https://www.brfff.co...p?topic=12905.0

 

Note that Ronnie Kittredge is still a guide on the South Holston. How does that happen?


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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