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What Feathers Do You Need


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39 replies to this topic

#16 agn54

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:07 PM

The only type I can think of would be flat wing saddles, since Whiting quit producing them. Keough sells them but theyre pretty steep and I dont know how they compare to the old Whiting ones. Striper guys are always looking for them, at least according to several fora. Really the only way to carve your niche may be to find some way to do what others are doing but do it cheaper and undercut the competition, like FTD did with synthetics (which of course is much easier than this)

#17 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 08:15 PM

whiting-300x300.jpg

 

this aint happening overnight or even in five years

 

 

I can just imagine a chicken like that frozen to the ground in our run on a night like tonight where it went from 37 to 22 degrees in four hours.  They must raise them on velvet cushions.


   Not that Pearsall

 

Pearsalls_logo.gif


#18 tjm

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 03:07 AM

My chickens are sorta like Charlie's, geared more toward eggs than feathers or meat, and in 30 years or so of random crosses of many breeds I've had two rooster that had fairly good hackle, hens that produce usable feathers are more common. I have  observed in my birds that the Bantams seem to have the nicest feathers. 

But, most guys I've known that breed chickens for any specific purpose have many small coops and mate one selected  rooster with two select hens at a time. Record keeping and individual bird identification are very important. 

 

I don't  know if this would be something that might work for you sooner than reinventing Darbee's work- every so often I see people looking for jungle cock feathers and seeming to have a hard time finding them, the various pheasants and grouse/partridges used in tying are sometimes scarce in good quality (or have been) ; you might look into setting up a production program for game bird or rare bird feathers. there may be additional regulation in this area, idk.

 

Another random thought is to contact the wholesale suppliers like Wapsi or some of the many retail outlets and discuss with the what feathers they have a demand for that are in limited supply or in need of quality improvement.

I imagine that producers like Whiting, Metz, Spencer, Collins, and  the other couple dozen growers would discuss some aspects of the business with an aspiring young person if approached. Some one  helped them get started; and by picking their brains, your learning curve will be shortened by many years and disappointments. Things like how much the female side of a mating affects the off spring and what are keys to look for in particular genetic areas. How to get longer legs to help protect super long feathers?

 

This talks a little about the improvement since the '70s http://cgtu.org/docu...etic_hackle.pdf

 

I have often wished for hen necks and saddles with longer thinner stems ..  



#19 Barbless Bob

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:20 AM

For decades, I have been trying to get my hands on a good Cree hen cape. I've contacted Whiting many times as well as many other suppliers/shops. No dice. Since I'm an old geezer now, I really don't need one any more, but I was convinced after several hooked permit in the Keys in the 1980s-2000, that using splayed Cree hen feathers on a Del Brown's Merkin fly REALLY made a big difference. Below is a photo of the original Cree hen feathers I bought way back in the 1980s.

 

Photo 2 CREE WHITING HACKLE bottom of pkg FNL LR.jpg

 

 

 

 



#20 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:03 PM

"Cree" appears to be a hybrid that does not breed straight,  A grizzly (Barred Rock) and brown neck (Leghorn?)

 

Or possibly a Bielefelder as is . . . 

 

McMurrayHatchery_Bielefelder_Rooster.jpg

 

Hens

 

McMurrayHatchery-Bielefelder-Pullets-and


   Not that Pearsall

 

Pearsalls_logo.gif


#21 flytire

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 06:48 AM

what is cree hackle

 

http://flyanglersonl...ytying/cree.php


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It is illegal to hunt camels in the state of Arizona


#22 sandflyx

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 07:32 AM

This is my breeder (Jr) a big cree for wide saddles. Have a grizzly as a breeder to who is Jr.'s son with a slight tan color in the black and white, almost a varient. I don't breed for drys only hen and saddles/wets anymore

 

DSCF0670.JPG


sandfly/bob

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#23 yooperflyfisher

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 11:11 AM

This is my breeder (Jr) a big cree for wide saddles. Have a grizzly as a breeder to who is Jr.'s son with a slight tan color in the black and white, almost a varient. I don't breed for drys only hen and saddles/wets anymore
 
attachicon.gif DSCF0670.JPG



Awesome looking rooster

#24 flytire

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 01:47 PM

breed this guy for dancing or a boiling pot, not for tying feathers

 

YaYdPwj.jpg


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It is illegal to hunt camels in the state of Arizona


#25 yooperflyfisher

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 04:57 PM

breed this guy for dancing or a boiling pot, not for tying feathers
 
YaYdPwj.jpg




Lol

#26 Barbless Bob

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 06:09 PM

Flytire wrote:

 

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Posted Today, 07:48 AM

Most fishermen use the double haul to throw their casting mistakes further - Lefty Kreh

 

 

 

Barbless Bob replies: Years ago I contacted the Conrads at Conranch Hackle and never received a reply. I figured all their Cree product was spoken for, and anyway I couldn't use narrow dry fly feathers for my purpose no matter how good they were. Throughout the years, I have purchased some low grade, "soft" Cree rooster feathers and have ended up using them for freshwater nymph and wet fly patterns where they usually outperform the traditional hackle called for in the patterns.  Bottom line is, Cree rooster hackle isn't suitable for Merkin patterns, but it is in very high demand for expert dry fly tiers who are familiar with the outstanding performance associated with Cree in certain patterns.  



#27 tjm

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 07:03 PM

Conrad sold out to Lars Benson as "Clearwater Hackle" in 2012 and their website is "This Domain Name Has Expired" 
Bizapedia shows them as " Inactive-Dissolved (Administrative)"

Last Tweet from them was in 2014 so that line of "five color Cree" is likely gone.



#28 Barbless Bob

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:56 AM

TJM, Thanks for the update. Even though I probably won't ever need more Cree hen hackles for my Merkins, I still remember how, in the 1980s and 90s, both cruising and tailing permit in Key West would gobble those Merkins with Cree claw feathers. Perhaps I'm kidding myself, but I really believe that Cree made the difference. I got ahold of my Whiting hen cape back then by begging the folks at Kaufman's Streamborn on the phone after seeing in their catalog that they tied their Merkins with Cree claws. That was one fine flyfishing outlet!

 

Bob with Permit on Fly Key West 4_4_97 LR.jpg



#29 DarrellP

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 06:35 AM

You seem to be a very creative young man. Go for it. Flat wing saddles are hard to find. Rare breeds of pheasant would be useful. Jungle cock is very difficult, I am told, from a legal stand point, but that would be a real need to fill. Genetics is a science and the poultry guys have it down pat for producing food breeds.

If you raise them "free range" you can sell the meat advertised as that, at a local farmer's market. Keep them organic and you can charge a premium.

If you like doing this you could study poultry genetics in college. Many southern colleges with agricultural schools, such as Mississippi State and Georgia have great programs. I am sure most land grant schools have good programs. It is a huge industry with lots of lucrative jobs and a bit of a shortage of educated people.
"Calling fishing a hobby is like calling brain surgery a job." John Geirach

#30 Flicted

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 10:48 AM

I would like to get my hands on some Jungle Cock some day but can't see forking over the bucks for it.  I really don't care for the fake ones (plastic or whatever they are). I will continue to leave it off and wish there was a suitable alternative.

Reading back over my post, I realize that if someone that doesn't tie flies were to read those first two sentences, they would get a whole different meaning.