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Emerger Floatation and Ginger on Adams


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9 replies to this topic

#1 patze003

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:36 AM

Hi all, I have a couple questions I was wondering if I could get some help on.

 

1) I have been tying the Quigley Film Critic and it doesn't seem to float too well. I'm using TMC 2487 but wondering how to make the body sit below surface with rest above? Or maybe it's better to have it all float an inch or 2 below and pair it with a dry 12 inches above as a strike indicator?

 

2) How are the proportions on these flies? They are all size 18

 

3) Has anyone used medium ginger instead of coachman brown, does it work as well? (last pic is ginger)

 

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#2 mikechell

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:47 AM

Welcome to the site, Patze.  

 

The second one (Orange) looks a little top heavy, but all of them are much better than I'd do at that size!  I don't tie anything that small.


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#3 zip

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:39 PM

I agree with Mike,the second does look a bit top heavy.Other than that your proportions look really good.
As far as changing from brown to ginger:It's going to be more of a regional thing depending on the types of hatches you have going on.If you think it would work then try tying a few in that color!
If your having trouble getting them to float use a little bit of fry fly floatant.
"They say you forget your troubles on a trout stream, but that's not quite it. What happens is that you begin to see where your troubles fit into the grand scheme of things, and suddenly they're just not such a big deal anymore."
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#4 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:57 PM

#1 -  hackle is too long unless you designed the fly to be a skittering pattern. I would cut the lower hacle flat to the hook and it will catch more fish.

 

#2 - I would like it better with slightly shorter tail fibers  and a shorter orange wing.

 

#3 - Tail fibers too long, shorten them to body length. Body should be slimmer and it is slightly lumpy,. Too many wraps of hackle and the hackle is concave down. This mean the fly will rid higher and I prefer the parachute tied concave up.

 

#4 parachute - Has hackle tied concave up. Dp you see the difference?

 

The fact that parachute fly #3 and fly #4 have hackle would differently mens that you are posting  the hackle on the parachute post RANDOMLY and not really being consistent with your tying process. You must be consistent to have consistent flies. Again tail is a bit long - the tail length should be the body length.

 

A parachute fly is a late stage emerger and not a dry fly because the hackle is ABOVE the BODY. So the body lies on/in the film like a late stage emerger. When the hackle is tied convex side up, the fly will lie lower in the film and a lower lying emerger is more vulneralbe.

 

http://www.garyborge...tage-3-emerger/

 

See this discussion:

 

http://www.flytyingf...showtopic=82314


Regards,

Silver

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#5 Philly

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

Might as well add my $0.02.   The only one I really tie is #2.  I know it as a Quigley Cripple.  Shown to me by a West Coast member of [email protected] who was visiting Philadelphia on business.  I modified the original fly he gave me to an east coast version.  Body and tail are pheasant tail.  I added a CDC thorax, snow shoe rabbit foot wing, and grizzly hackle.   The reason it may not be floating right is that your wing and hackle are too far back.  Should be closer to the head.  This one's tied on size 12 TMC 2488.  Hopefully my picture will show the difference.

 

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#6 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 05:18 PM

Might as well add my $0.02.   The only one I really tie is #2.  I know it as a Quigley Cripple.  Shown to me by a West Coast member of [email protected] who was visiting Philadelphia on business.  I modified the original fly he gave me to an east coast version.  Body and tail are pheasant tail.  I added a CDC thorax, snow shoe rabbit foot wing, and grizzly hackle.   The reason it may not be floating right is that your wing and hackle are too far back.  Should be closer to the head.  This one's tied on size 12 TMC 2488.  Hopefully my picture will show the difference.

 

attachicon.gifP3190151.JPG

 

 

You are right, the pattern #2 is a Quigley Cripple.

 

Here is a video, in which Davie Mcphail ties ir as a PMD emerger. 

 


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#7 FIN-ITE 34

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 06:20 PM

Ah, I think that is a Quigly Film Critic in #2, and looking at a couple vids the proportions look pretty good. The hackle is not would around the shank but is more like a hackle stacker type pattern where the hackle is wound around a long loop of wing material and then pulled down and over the top of the thorax. It looks like he did a pretty good job of that.

You can try greasing the hackle and wing only. That should get you the body down in the film and the wing/hackle above.



#8 Philly

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 08:07 PM

I didn't notice the hackle didn't go all the way around.  There's an SBS on the Quigley Film Critic in the Step by Step Patterns section.  It's dates to 2015 so it's on page 3.  It reinforces what I suggested that the wing and hackle need to be closer to the hook eye in order to get it to float right.


"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."

#9 Bugsy

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:20 PM

Your Film Critic is a great effort and should catch fish as it is.  As for changes, I'd suggest the following:

 

Go with less material on the tail/shuck.  Just a few (i.e., 2 or 3) fibers of mallard over a sparse section of synthetic fiber (1/2 the length of the mallard or less).

 

Use polypropylene yarn for the wing.  Standard poly on the card, EP fibers, Widows Web, Congo hair, etc.  Antron will hold water.

 

Before you pull your stacked hackle over the thorax, use your thumb and forefinger to stroke the hackle barbs back several times while you're holding the post upright.  Working the barbs this way will help keep them above the body when completed.

 

Tie the wing down just behind the hook eye, then hold the wing upright while you tie off with a whip finish or a couple hitches.  In your example, it appears you wrapped back over the post, creating a large head that occupies a full 1/3 of the shank when you only need a small head of 4-5 turns.  You'll be able to get a longer and more proportionate thorax and a bit more hackle to keep the fly up.

 

Not a big deal but if you're having difficulty keeping the abdomen slim on such a small hook, you could go with an abdomen constructed of working thread or any one of the fine synthetic body materials (e.g., Veevus Body Quill).



#10 SilverCreek

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:25 PM

I stand corrected. Good pickup Fin-Ite


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v