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#1 elkelkgoose

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 10:30 PM

Ive only tied midges so far and attempted to tie a a sparkle wing RS2 and ran into issues with pretty much every step.

 

1. Dubbing slides down the thread when I wrap

2. Dubbing seemed to get fluffier as I moved to next steps of tying the fly.

3. My thread keeps splitting into many fine threads as I wrap.

4. When tying on the tail it wants to wrap around the side of the hook shank instead of staying on top.

5. When tying on the pearl braid it wants to wrap around the back of the hook shank instead of staying on top.

6. When using dubb I can figure out what to do when Im done wrappign the dub but need to continue with a clean thread and there's still left over dub.

7. The whip finisher is a royal PITA. When I try to get it started and rotate it my last several wraps pop sideways off the hook eye. This happens on midges as well.

 

Is there a book or something that includes answers to these types of things, I dont know anyone who ties so Im on my own figuring this stuff out.



#2 tjm

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 02:34 AM

lots of good book recommendations; http://www.flytyingf...&hl=book&page=1

 

My recommendation for a beginner would be a paperback that can be bought used for under $10- " Universal Fly Tying Guide" by Dick Stewart

 

Online instruction for free; http://www.flyangler...ying/beginners/

 

Dubbing tutorial; https://thelimpcobra...iques-tutorial/

 

thread control https://globalflyfisher.com/node/13943

 

Start with the tail fibers against the side of the hook and when they follow the thread they will be on top of the hook.



#3 Flicted

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:44 AM

It looks like TJM gave you some good references.  Here are a few general tips that come to mind that should help as well.

 

Dubbing is one of those things where there are so many methods for so many purposes.  You can usually use less dubbing than you think you will need.  A thin, even dubbing noodle can be easily controlled and can be layered to give a tapered effect if that's what you are going for.  It also will make it easier to remove left-over dubbing at the end without having to figure out how to tie down a lump at the end.  Also, with twist dubbing, twist in one direction, I go counter-clockwise.  Once you wrap the beginning of your noodle, it is held down and you can twist as you go to keep the desired thickness.  With some materials, I hold onto the noodle and it twists nicely around the thread.

 

Some thread is more prone to fraying, most common causes are nicking the thread with the hook point as you wrap, rough skin on your fingers, or a flaw in your bobbin tube. 

 

Experience will help with materials rolling, but it sounds like you should hold the materials tighter to the hook and/or closer to the tie-in..  One great tip as TJM said is to you start your materials towards the side of the hook, then let the thread tension pull it on top. 

 

Thread control at the head is another common problem that will improve with experience.  I've been tying for 30 years and I still get carried away sometimes.  There are tips to make it happen "almost never".  I would recommend watching several Davey McPhail tying videos.  They are pretty short and if you can deal with the Scottish accent, he explains material selection, dubbing technique, material positioning, proportion, and thread control in almost every video.  I don't know how he can do things like spin deer hair with 8/0 uni-thread, but he is very good at describing technique.



#4 rstaight

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:09 AM

Kelly Galloup has some nice videos. They can be a little long at times but he has a lot of information in them.

I can't add to what has already been said other than, practice, practice, practice.

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.  Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick F. McManus


#5 Dave G.

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 04:09 AM

For flossy style thread where the strands open up and spread over the hook as you wrap and you would rather have a single cord like thread, just spin your bobbin and let the thread twist into a tighter cord, then start wrapping.. If you then want it to spread more just spin the other way a few turns.

 

It helps to wet the thread with saliva before applying dubbing to the thread, most of us don't used dubbing wax but that works all the better to get dubbing to stick to the thread. As already mentioned, twist the dubbing onto the thread in one direction only, I too twist counter clockwise and squeeze very tight the dubbing and thread between my fingers when doing so. And I agree that less is more or certainly enough when dubbing, you need surprisingly little in terms of thickness.

 

Look up some fly tying videos on "the pinch method" or so called pinch wrap. It's an invaluable technique you will come to learn you can't live without. It's one of the very first techniques to learn in beginner tying classes and perhaps #1 in many tying instructional books. Well actually, here click this link; https://howtoflyfish...do-a-pinch-wrap


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#6 Poopdeck

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:55 AM

Patieeeeeeence, it's really not that difficult and your more then capable of learning in very short order. Most of your problem is thread control. Keep proper tension, something like the weight of the bobbin or a very light grip of the spool is all that is needed. Splitting thread and thread jumping around is twist, or lack of twist, in the thread. As was mentioned, simply let the bobbin hang and give it a good spin letting it spin a dozen times. If the loop still wants to jump off the hook eye spin it some more. You will find that by spinning it you can actually get the thread to jump away from the hook eye right where you want it. I'm right handed so I spin the bobbin counter clockwise to keep the thread from jumping off the hook eye.

Loose dubbing, only twist the dubbing on The thread in one direction. Dubbing can always be slid up or down the thread. Excess dubbing can simply be pulled off the thread.

Your failures are very minor and easily corrected.

#7 flytire

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:01 AM

 

Is there a book or something that includes answers to these types of things, I dont know anyone who ties so Im on my own figuring this stuff out.

 

 

watch how the creator of the rs2 ties it

 

 

splitting tails

 


Fly tyers sure have a way at making things difficult


#8 flytire

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:08 AM

basic dubbing

 

 

check out all of the 1 minute or so tying videos in the link below

 

https://www.youtube....dbGSxp-MXTun_Ga


Fly tyers sure have a way at making things difficult


#9 flytire

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:12 AM

close up tying of a rs2

 


Fly tyers sure have a way at making things difficult


#10 mikechell

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

Welcome to the site, Elkelkgoose.

Question:  How dedicated are you to tying flies?  

 

Spend some time.  Just do whip finishes until you can do them correctly every time.  Just play with dubbing until you can get the effect you want.  Don't tie a complete fly until you can do a few of the critical steps consistently.

It's been stated above, practice, practice, practice.  Just be sure you're practicing correctly. Practicing bad technique just reinforces bad habits, and everyone knows it's hard to break bad habits.


Barbed hooks rule!
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#11 SilverCreek

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:49 AM



Ive only tied midges so far and attempted to tie a a sparkle wing RS2 and ran into issues with pretty much every step.

 

1. Dubbing slides down the thread when I wrap

2. Dubbing seemed to get fluffier as I moved to next steps of tying the fly.

3. My thread keeps splitting into many fine threads as I wrap.

4. When tying on the tail it wants to wrap around the side of the hook shank instead of staying on top.

5. When tying on the pearl braid it wants to wrap around the back of the hook shank instead of staying on top.

6. When using dubb I can figure out what to do when Im done wrappign the dub but need to continue with a clean thread and there's still left over dub.

7. The whip finisher is a royal PITA. When I try to get it started and rotate it my last several wraps pop sideways off the hook eye. This happens on midges as well.

 

Is there a book or something that includes answers to these types of things, I dont know anyone who ties so Im on my own figuring this stuff out.

 

 

Questions 1 and 2 are answered here:

 

http://www.flytyingf...=86541&p=713658

 

Question 3's answer is the type of thread you are using. I suspect you are using a NON bonded and non twisted thread that is good for split thread dubbing. If you are right handed fly tyer, spin the tread CLOCKWISE as viewed from the top of the fly. This will further twist the tread as you wind the fly and the thread will get tighter and not unwind and split.

 

Here is a "thread" on thread and an article by Charlie Craven on thread:

 

http://www.flytyingf...showtopic=82975

 

http://www.flyfisher...aterials/152177

 

Questions  4 and 5 are answered here:

 

http://www.flytyingf...=81429&p=630123

 

Question 6's answer is to start with less dubbing than you think you need. A good rule of thumb is to start with 1/2 of what you think you need and then remove 1/2 of that before you start. Starting with too much dubbing is a common fault of beginners. So less is more. Combined with the technique I suggest in the answer to question 1 and 2 will allow you to tailor a well dubbed tapered fly.

 

Question 7 is answered here:

 

http://www.theflyfis...html#post722933

 

 

Get a Matarelli style whip finisher or a knock off. They are ambidextrous.

 

s-l1000.jpg

 

 

The Matarelli Patent Application below clearly shows the direction of the whip finish should be toward the hook eye:

 

35684736436_b259522d34_o.jpg

 

 

 


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#12 CasualAngler

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 11:54 AM

EEG (OP),

These guys are great. They're helpful, give lots of encouragement, & an awesome Resource for the 411.

Like you, I struggle with the little things; whip finish, consistent wrapping, DUBBING!

As mikechell said, practice, practice, practice. I wrap, then make 5 whip finishes at various points along the shank, and then I strip the thread from the hook & try again. It's only Thread...

NOW I need to work on Dubbing. TY for the vid, flytire!

You'll get the hang of it. When you tie your 1st complete RS2 without a hitch, the joy & satisfaction will be infectious!

Alan :)

#13 chugbug27

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 12:22 PM

On your whip finish, when that happens you are backing the whip finisher too far away from the thread tie-in point. You want to keep the tip of the whip finisher (the little hook) right in there at the head of the fly, and roate it around the head during the whip finish WITHOUT moving the tip away from the head of the fly (your tie in point).
cb27

#14 elkelkgoose

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:04 PM

Thanks for all the responses, I'm going to try and look through all the materials tonight that everyone sent and give it another shot. At a glance, some of the stuff posted on the whip finisher is a little different than the other way I saw so that will be helpful.

 

As for the question of how dedicated am I to tying flies: I live in Colorado and have a lot of hobbies that take up my time. I like the idea of creating flies that utilize materials I get from hunting and fishing with something I created. Will I be the guy with a dedicated fly tying room? No. But I would like 10 or so flies that I can crank out quickly when needed that covers most of the fishing I do on the South Platte close to my house. Occasionally, Ill probably experiment and try to come up with something new.



#15 chugbug27

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:30 PM

Removed sorry. Looks like it was more of an Umpqua ad than an objective article.
cb27