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Pegging Beads... Fishing or snagging?


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61 replies to this topic

#31 Jaydub

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 05:23 PM

 

If the fish is clearly taking the lure, in this case a bead, and gets the hook inside it's mouth at the same time, how is that any different than say a spinner with a trailing treble hook or an intruder with the hook extending past the material? If your pegging the bead 6" from the hook that's a different story.

 


The intent of the pegged egg is that the fish take the egg and then get hooked outside the mouth. The intent of the spinner/intruder is that the fish take the hook into its mouth. If it gets hooked out side of the mouth, that was an unintended result.

 

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If the pegged egg results in the fish getting hooked inside the mouth, this is not the design of the rig. It is a good "result" from a "bad" action

 


 

 

The intent of a pegged bead is that the fish takes the bead (bait) and then is hooked in the corner of the mouth, in a position that the hook is easily removed, not necessarily outside the mouth. The people I know that fish pegged beads place the bead close to the hook, like two finger widths. The rig is fished exactly how one would dead drift a nymph. When a strike is detected they set the hook. I fail to see a "bad" action or intent.



#32 heavynets

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 05:59 PM

I agree. It's less likely that the fish will swallow the hook and it's quicker to release the fish. However, I can see the need to limit the distance of the lure to the hook and only use a single hook. Otherwise some wise-guy will put a fly 10 feet above a treble hook and yank it through the water and claim his snagging attemps are legal.

#33 carpflyguy

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 06:41 PM

Jayden, good point on hook placement. If you don't pay attention with fishing yarn eggs, they are often hooked dangerously deep. That is one aspect of pegging beads that I could see as advantageous.

I think anyone fishing "regular" eggs should seriously consider fishing nothing but barblesa, and of course, be attentive while fishing them.

But I don't know... assuming that were counting the head as a fly, I still cant quite get behind it. Why is the bead more effective than the egg fly? Possibly because it doesn't have the hook? If so, then are you really fooling the trout? You didn't fool it into taking your hook. I dont have all the answers, good to hear some more points.

#34 Cold

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:08 AM

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#35 whatfly

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 02:41 PM

Only real question is, is it legal or not? The rest is just personal opinion. Easy enough to use the 'melted bead' method instead of pegging if you really want the fish to take the hook and the 'fly' at the same time. Not quite as effective, but works fine. Lots of places where using plastic bead at all is illegal; lots of place where it is not. Know the regulations and act as your conscience dictates.

#36 vicente

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:33 PM

In my opinion it's not really snagging if the fish willing takes the lure into its mouth and is hooked outside the mouth do to the design of the rig/lure. If you're just fishing them with a bead ahead of the hook then yea that would be snagging.

#37 vicrider

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Posted 10 September 2016 - 03:21 PM

This is an argument that could go on for years among those who are honestly trying to "catch" their fish. The worst mistake the MI DNR ever made was opening up the salmon runs the first year or two to legal snagging since "they're going to die anyway". This brought out an element to the rivers more akin to the old dynamiters than fishermen. We started going to the MI runs and continued for several years. After MN and WI began to stock I'd fish those runs hard and heavy. Steel head in spring and salmon in the fall along with the steelhead that followed them and the lake trout that were a sleeper that not many knew came in the rivers late IF the water was up. I have seen Chinook shoot three feet to the side to chomp and a drifting yarn fly with a rubber egg on the hook. Coho especially would bite well when first in the river and of course steelhead were in there in fall to eat those juicy eggs spilling out of the salmon. 

 

I don't think I'd call a person fishing the bead and bare hook an outlaw but then we get into the intent side of the store. I've snagged and released many salmon and a few steelhead over those years but never with intent or kept and never with any bait except I thought would catch a fish. Fishing a brightly colored nymph or jig under a bobb... err, an indicator and watching that indicator rip down into the water you knew that fish was grabbing it. I seldom used an indicator but one spring on the Brule River in MN there was an open pool with ice ledge all the way across the tail of the pool. Dropping a yarn and egg ON THE HOOK with a bobber to bumper against the ice shelf resulted in a great afternoon of fishing steelhead and there was doubt they took the fly. 

 

The argument will go on as people try to skirt the law and get their fish but until we invent a truth detector usable on the river to determine intent people will justify as needed for the fish harvest.



#38 troutguy

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 08:40 PM

I used to fish the Salmon River near Pulaski, NY every year. There was a run of Coho, Chinook, Atlantic, Steelhead and Browns.

 

If the Chinook and Coho were in the river I fished a BRIGHT orange or chartreuse egg fly. I wore light brown polarized glasses with a long brimmed hat. I used a a lot of weight. If the fish were in a hole resting then I could catch them.  Rarely did one bite. Once in a great while a fish would slash at a fly. The color of the fly was for me to see it and "line" them.  Done well it doesn't look like snagging but it is. Pacific salmon die after spawning. I rarely kept any fish. 

 

Browns, Atlantics and Steelhead actually bite. They liked egg patterns and nymphs.


Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for the day; Teach a man to tie flies and he'll pick up all the roadkill.

#39 troutguy

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 08:50 PM

During the 1970's when I first started going salmon fishing the state allowed snagging with spinning rods. We used to leave the fly fishing only and go up and watch the crazy snaggers. Picture hundreds of people on both sides casting LARGE treble hooks with large weights (like several ounces) built around the hooks. We saw fist fights, huge cuts and guys knocked out. 


Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for the day; Teach a man to tie flies and he'll pick up all the roadkill.

#40 Cold

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 07:48 AM



#41 ihang10

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 03:04 PM

Don't know squat about salmon fishing but watched it being done in Alaska where the "anglers" were lined up darn near shoulder to shoulder dragging their 'flies" across the river. One local said the salmon aren't hungry just focused on their run and swim up stream with their mouths open and are hooked when the line slides through their mouth. If that's true then I would say snagging best describes it.... but like I said....I don't know squat about salmon fishing. unsure.png


Combat fishing is common in downtown Anchorage. Maybe other dense areas. I didn't see any of that in the interior.

And I'm pretty sure snagging would get you a fine. Seems to me I was listening to a drunk guy tell me the guy next to him in the combat lineup turned him into the DNR.

#42 ihang10

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 03:07 PM

During the 1970's when I first started going salmon fishing the state allowed snagging with spinning rods. We used to leave the fly fishing only and go up and watch the crazy snaggers. Picture hundreds of people on both sides casting LARGE treble hooks with large weights (like several ounces) built around the hooks. We saw fist fights, huge cuts and guys knocked out. 


When I was a kid we'd see that on Lake Michigan. Friend of mine would smelt the hooks. Couple of oz's of lead per each one.

I was up on Lake Superior last month and it would appear it's still a method used.

#43 vjc

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:27 PM

Here in WNY yarn eggs and beads are very popular for steelhead and are almost always dead drifted under a rather large float. Not really fly fishing but not snagging either. State law says that the bead cannot be farther than 1 3/4 inch from the hook. Fished on a dead drift the fish has to take the bead into it's mouth, just as it would any other fly or bait, in order to be hooked. The challenge of getting the fish to eat the bead is the same as getting it to eat your nymph pattern, the presentation has to be right. The only difference is that the fish is hooked on the outside of its mouth rather than on the inside and if you are interested in being gentle with the fish you want to release this is a good thing. 

 

Can a fish be snagged with this setup? Probably. So far I have not snagged one with a pegged bead but I have foul hooked quite a few browns and steelhead dead drifting wooly buggers, nymphs and streamers. The reason is that these flies are usually allowed to swing across the current before being recast. When there are a lot of holding fish and your fly is swinging across the bottom it's easy to foul hook one.

 

So if you want to snag a steelhead with your fly rod a nice size 6 or 4 streamer or even a size 10 stone fly is a much better choice that dead drifting a pegged bead with a size 12 hook..


Vince

 

 

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#44 steeldrifter

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:43 PM

Let me preference this with saying I have not read more than one or two replies...not that I don't want too, just haven't had the time recently. But wanted to reply because this topic has come up here in Michigan in recent years.

 

Beads fished this way here in Michigan are actually illegal IF you want to keep the fish. Reason being is because as most know the fish takes the bead, and then the hook is pulled into the fish (outside of the mouth). Is it snagging? Kind'a but then again no. You are in fact pulling the hook into the fish when it is taking a different target, but it's not snagging in the way snaggers do where you're just hooking a fish anywhere in its body.

 

Even though it's actually not hurting the fish...here in Michigan at least (not sure about other places) it's illegal to keep because any fish hooked outside the mouth is not a legal fish.

 

Carry on ;)


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#45 fishinguy

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:21 PM

I bought some beads a few years ago to see what the hype was about. Hadn't really read anything on how to actually rig them before then. I live in pa. The way they were originally intended to be fished, would be illegal, as the fish would be hooked outside the mouth. I've been pegging the bead about an inch up from the hook. EVERY SINGLE FISH I HAVE CAUGHT HAS BEEN HOOKED INSIDE THE MOUTH. Sorry for the caps, just wanted to make that very clear. If i found that they consistently hooked fish outside the mouth, I'd be out a few bucks. Oh well. The way I look at it. If the hook is very close to the bead, it's really no different than any other egg pattern.