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Roll casting with a short 3wt.


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32 replies to this topic

#1 fishinguy

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:27 AM

I have a 5'9" 3wt fiberglass rod that I'm really enjoying fishing. Only issue is it's not a great roll caster with the 3wt weight forward line I'm using. I'd like to be able to better utilize the rod when fishing small streams with a lot of brush in the banks and when fishing lakes with step banks. Is the rods length going to just limit my ability to roll cast any reasonable distance? Or will a double taper line (maybe a 4 or 5wt?) be what I'm looking for? Or should I get a single hand spey line for it? I'm mostly fishing soft hackles, small streamers, and dries. Nothing real heavy. I would like to be able to cast a good distance from the bank though. Thoughts? Experiences?

#2 McFlyLures

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:34 AM

I have a 5'9" 3wt fiberglass rod that I'm really enjoying fishing. Only issue is it's not a great roll caster with the 3wt weight forward line I'm using. I'd like to be able to better utilize the rod when fishing small streams with a lot of brush in the banks and when fishing lakes with step banks. Is the rods length going to just limit my ability to roll cast any reasonable distance? Or will a double taper line (maybe a 4 or 5wt?) be what I'm looking for? Or should I get a single hand spey line for it? I'm mostly fishing soft hackles, small streamers, and dries. Nothing real heavy. I would like to be able to cast a good distance from the bank though. Thoughts? Experiences?

So I have a 7 2wt and an 8 3wt. Neither are Fiberglas, but both are relatively moderate-slow action. Both are much longer so maybe Im not the best judge but, I do find that a double taper line roll casts pretty well with them. Sure, not as good as with my 10 3wt, but thats a given. Im not going to get more than 20-30 feet with a roll cast, and I wouldnt really expect to. I dont up the line wt, and I dont think it will make a difference at the 30 range honestly. But at the shorter ranges it would (Ive tried the 3wt DT line with my 2wt). I find that shorter ranges load the rod easier with a heavier line, but the line is too heavy for good long distance roll casts when upping the line wt. Id stick with a 3wt for your rod, and I think you will be happy. No its not gonna be a stiff action 10 rocket, but you will see improvement in the length of your roll cast with a DT line. At least I would think.

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#3 McFlyLures

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:41 AM

It took off the foot symbol... lol so thats a 7 foot 2wt and an 8foot 3wt. And further down I talk about my 10 foot 3wt. Not sure why it removed the single dash line for the foot symbol. Lol

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#4 rstaight

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 12:42 PM

With a short rod roll casting may be a little harder. But a double taper line will make a huge difference regardless.

 

Since I several rods I have played around with over lining and under lining a rod by 1 wt. I shy away from doing that while fishing. The closest I come is the Orvis Clearwater line. It is a half weight heavier.

 

Most of my fishing 20 feet is a long cast. The Orvis line fits the bill nicely and it is not expensive. Believe it or not my favorite line.


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#5 SilverCreek

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 01:55 PM

Learn to do a dynamic roll cast with a haul to add length.

 

http://www.sexyloops...namicroll.shtml

 

http://cast90.com/lo...ng_made_ea.html

 

 

Secondly, you are rarely if ever going to cast into the running line of a WF line with a 5' 9" rod. However, neither will you ever roll cast with the running outside the guides of a 5' 9" 3 wt rod. So DT and WF lines will perform equally.

 

Standard DT and WF lines are identical for at least the first 30 feet because of the AFTMA line standards. So add the length of the leader and the length of the rod and you have yourself a 45 ft role cast. After that, even a longer head lengths like the 45 ft head on the WF below makes for even longer roll casts.

 

 

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#6 fishinguy

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

Learn to do a dynamic roll cast with a haul to add length.
 
http://www.sexyloops...namicroll.shtml
 
http://cast90.com/lo...ng_made_ea.html
 

 
Secondly, you are rarely if ever going to cast into the running line of a WF line with a 5' 9" rod. However, neither will you ever roll cast with the running outside the guides of a 5' 9" 3 wt rod. So DT and WF lines will perform equally.
 
Standard DT and WF lines are identical for at least the first 30 feet because of the AFTMA line standards. So add the length of the leader and the length of the rod and you have yourself a 45 ft role cast. After that, even a longer head lengths like the 45 ft head on the WF below makes for even longer roll casts.
 
 

Well, since I'm not able to roll cast 45' with my current setup, maybe technique and practice should certainly be my first focus. Still curious to others experiences on the matter.

#7 SilverCreek

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 05:14 PM

Well, since I'm not able to roll cast 45' with my current setup, maybe technique and practice should certainly be my first focus. Still curious to others experiences on the matter.

 

 

I was making my point as to why a DT line is no better than a WF line for roll casting your short 3 wt. You just confirmed it. Both will perform the same for the distances you will be fishing. My opinion is that unless you are going to fish at casting distances that require a WF line, why buy a WF line? The crossover point for me is at about a 4 or a 5 wt line.

 

I was at a Cabelas in Green Bay years ago and a customer was looking for a 2 wt line and the "fly fishing" sales person tried to sell him a WF line for cripes sake. Who hired this guy? After the sales guy moved on, I told the customer to get a DT line instead. Who needs a WF 2 wt line? The running line on the WF will be about the thickness of a DT 2 wt fly line.

 

Here's a discussion from 2015 from NAFF IN which I discuss making 2 custom WF fly lines from a DT line. I did that with back in the 1970s to make 2 wf lines from a DT and a spool of Cortland running fly line from myself and my wife. It is what I used to do to save money. In fact, since the running line of WF line rarely gets used, when a WF fly line goes bad, save the running line, turn it around connect the back end to a DT line it to make your own WF line from a DT line.

 

https://www.theflyfi...-wf-my-2wt.html


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#8 tjm

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 05:19 PM

If you are going to rollcast, exclusively a level line is the best thing going, imo,  because every foot of it weighs the same, no soft spots. But as Sivercreek says; There is not going to be much difference between the  WF and the DT

Not much telling if your rod will carry a heavier line or no with out trying it, but on carbon rods I have gone up two weights to be comfortable with my roll cast.

On FG I fish the rated weight on most rods I have, but after trying heavier and lighter lines.



#9 tjm

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 05:20 PM

X no delete?



#10 mikechell

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 05:49 PM

I fish my 5'6" 3 weight a lot.  I find that roll casting with it is a challenge, but the trick is to cast ... up.  

That's the only way I can explain it.  When roll casting, I shoot for a spot several feet higher than I normally would with a full backcast.  By flipping the line UP and out, I can get a farther roll cast than trying for a level forward cast.

 

Maybe a better explanation is: on a regular cast, you are supposed to stop the rod at 2 or 10 o'clock.  When roll casting, stop it at 12 o'clock or just before.  This will loft the loop higher off the water than stopping later in the swing.


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#11 heavynets

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 07:23 PM

Wulff's triangle taper Ambush line was designed for roll casting.

http://royalwulff.co...mbush-fly-line/

#12 fishinguy

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 06:00 AM

Wulff's triangle taper Ambush line was designed for roll casting.

http://royalwulff.co...mbush-fly-line/

That's one of the lines I was looking at. I'm just not sure if the short length of the rod is going to be too big of an obstacle to overcome. I know most spey/switch rods are very long and not sure how important that is for light single hand stuff.

#13 rstaight

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:59 AM

I have Wulff Ambush line on my TFO Drift.

The Wulff Ambush is a scandi line. I have the 195 grain that I use sink tips on.

The rod is new this year from TFO. It starts as a 9ft 4 piece 3wt designed primarily for nymphing. But it works well for dries.

You can add different butt sections and convert it to a 10ft, 11ft, or a 12ft rod. There is also an additional handle section that you can convert to a switch rod.

The only time I use the scandi line is in the 11ft or 12ft switch rod configuration.

Most of the time I fish the rod in the 10ft configuration with an Orvis Clearwater 3wt WF line. I am using a 9ft leader fishing nymphs under an indicator.

I typically use DT lines if I suspect a need for a lot of roll casting. But since the Orvis Clearwater lines are a 1/2 wt heavier it should work well with or shorter rod.

"Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.  Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." - Patrick F. McManus


#14 heavynets

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 02:37 PM

Your rod's length will limit you no matter what line you use. What do you think is a reasonable distance?

Since the Wulff Ambush line is designed for roll casting, I don't think you find a better line for roll casting. However, in my opinion, it is not even close to the best for dry flies if you cast beyond the head length which is about 18’-20’. This is because you have to strip in line until the head reaches the tip guide in order to make another cast. I don't know why rstraight considers this a scadi line. It only has an 18’-20’ shooting head followed by an intrical shooting line of 75’. For swinging and streamers, I think the line is GREAT. For dries beyond 20’, the double taper might be a better choice.

For what it's worth, I just now put my only Ambush line, a 5wt, on my 7’-6”, 3wt rod and did some roll casts in the back yard. I could cast about 18 yards (54 ft). That's with no loading from the dry grass, a way over-lined rod, and with a haul. Don't know how that will translate to your situation, but there it is.

#15 fishinguy

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

The main thing I wasnt sure of for that type of line is if the head length on those type of single had spey lines, short as it is, may still just be to Long for my diminutive 3wt.