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How important is eye distance in Clouser Minnow fly?

bass Clouser Minnow

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14 replies to this topic

#1 SpokaneDude

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:46 PM

Good Day....this is my first attempt at tying the Clouser Minnow for bass fishing; with that in mind, how important is the distance of the eye dumbell from the eye of the hook?  I have attached an image of what I have tied so far; my question is:  if you look at the 2 flies on the top, you will notice that the eyes are set further back towards the hook bend... does this make any difference?  Will these flies catch bass or trout (providing I do my part in casting and retrieving the hook-up)?  I would like a critique also as to what I could do better.

 

Thanks in advance...

 

SD

Attached Thumbnails

  • clouser minnows.jpg


#2 Meeshka

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:01 PM

Dude,

I 've got a leaflet of clouser instructions I picked up from Bob at his shop in PA in probably 1990, somewhere.  If I can find it I'll photocopy it and send you a copy

 

Doug



#3 SpokaneDude

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:09 PM

Meeshka:  I have a video of him tying it; some tiers say the distance is important, others say not so... 



#4 Meeshka

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:12 PM

I knew I had a pic on this computer,  From his shop from way back when

DSC_0970.JPG



#5 tjm

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:13 PM

I say the top two and the bottom one are close enough, but, it may matter more than I think. Are they supposed to head stand like a jig or swim like minnow, and how can we know if it is doing one or the other?
Bob himself telling it how he like them.

#6 tjm

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:25 PM

I believe I read that when Bob divides the hook into thirds he is measuring the hook overall- not just the straight part of the shank. He sets the eye farther from the hook eye than any store I been in does.

#7 mikechell

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:13 PM

I have to compare the clouser minnow to a soft plastic bassin' lure I use, called a "Sticko" from BPS.  It's a "Stick Bait" like the "Senko".

 

Rigged properly, it stays level and flutters as it falls through the water column.  Neither end dips faster, causing a dive.  This horizontal sinking movement is more lifelike and "dying" than a diving presentation.

 

I believe Clouser's intent, with the location of the dumbbell eyes, was to get this level, horizontal fall.  If the eyes are too far forward, then you have a "streamer" that dives and jerks through the water, never "settling" like a dying bait fish.  If the eyes are properly located, when the retrieve is stopped, the minnow stops it's forward motion and sinks while staying horizontal.

 

I could be wrong, but it's the impression I get.


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#8 SpokaneDude

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:31 PM

mike:  I think you're right... now to just figure out what is "proper" exactly... :-}

 

SD



#9 fshng2

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:20 PM

Use CK52S and CK74SS popper hooks for a perfect location every time.
Excellent article by Richard A. Lewis.
http://www.flyangler.../030606fotw.php

#10 tjm

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:01 PM

I would do what Bob Clouser shows in that video, the dumbbell or bead chain at about 1/3 the overall hook length, or use the dumbbell as a measure and placing the base wrap one dumbbell length behind the hook eye, this will be approximately right and will give uniformity, or do what this guy does and use popper hooks http://www.flyangler.../030606fotw.php
Notice that the "kink" for the popper is almost exactly at the 1/3 point and will be the same on every hook. Moving the dumbbell closer to the hook eye turns this streamer into a jig, imo, and I have a few tied as jigs that I should strip and do over. I believe these should flutter up and down with a strip retrieve. Putting the weight just barely off balance toward the head. I place the lead wraps in a similar position on some streamers.
But enough people tie these with the weight just barely behind the eye that they must work well as a jig also. .

#11 utyer

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 07:57 AM

I tie mine the way Bob does, with the eyes 1/3 of the full hook length back of the hook eye.  I measure adjust as needed before finishing the pattern.    They are producing well, and I will keep tying them that way.   For me it is easy to test and see the way the sink, since I have a pool.  The material used for the eye shouldn't change the way the fly sinks.  Heavier eye should only add to the sink rate.  To keep the fly sinking in a horizontal plane, adjust the material (deer hair,) in the body of the pattern.  

 

Brown Clouser.JPG


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#12 Philly

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:10 AM

Somewhere I have that pamphlet that Clouser printed on how to tie the Clouser minnow.  Picked it up when he did a presentation/tying demonstration at a fly tying club meeting.  I have slightly different interpretation of how he ties the fly.   I did talk to him at the meeting, as I was, at the time, just starting to tie the Clouser minnow and as he pointed out to me doing it wrong.   As I remember it, he told me to divide the length of the hook shank into thirds.  So if the hook shank is 30 mm long, the dumbbell eyes are tied in 10 mm behind the hook eye.   Another thing is that the buck tail on the top of the hook is not wrapped down all the way to the bend of the hook.  It's wrapped down the second third of the hook, in this case, 10 mm.  How was I suppose to do this?   He told me to measure the distances.  Eventually if you tie enough of them you can eyeball the distance.  When I tie them today, I still check the distances with a small ruler and adjust if necessary.   Any flash added, should extend about a 1/4" past the end of the buck tail.  That's how I've been tying them for the last 20 years.  The other thing I do is use clear polyester thread when I tie them.

 

094.JPG


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#13 Meeshka

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 09:35 AM

My appology in my old age I got too excited, I picked up the document in 2000 not 1990.  Any way I found it. Mr Clouser attaches the thread 1/3 the distance the length of the hook behind the eye and builds a bump with thread.  He attaches the barbell eyes just behind the bump and ties them in as normal.  This is from the leaflet.  He states and I quote "The Clouser Minnow is a style of fly tying and not a specific pattern"

 

Doug



#14 tidewaterfly

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:25 PM

Hey all! Good discussion & favorite topic of mine. Mike has a good interpretation of what Bob Clouser tries to do with the fly. If you listen to what he says in his video, he also mentions the sizing of the barbells. The combination of eye position & size of the barbell ( or bead chain if you use them) affects the horizontal attitude of the fly.  The fly is really intended to "glide" rather than have an exaggerated jigging action. 

 

Even if you do get the barbells positioned "correctly", if you use a barbell that's too heavy, it negates to some extent the reason for the 1/3 length positioning. So, the combination needs to be considered important.

 

The fact is it's not critical for the barbells to be in an exact location, because you can adjust the action & movement to suit any situation you like. However, that 1/3 position is what Bob uses and if you position the barbells close to that point, you'll get more of the gliding than the jigging unless you get crazy with the weight. Recently Bob Clouser joined in on a Facebook discussion and stated that he uses the 1/30 oz size barbells the most and on size 1 hooks. 

 

Also, as stated, the Clouser Minnow is a style of streamer, and as such allows for some adjustments.

 

I've noticed that most commercially, mass produced Clouser Minnows are tied "incorrectly" based on what Bob says in his video and his books. They're usually tied with barbells that are too heavy for the fly size, and positioned too close to the hook eye. Still, they'll catch fish, because it then becomes a weighted bucktail, and basically a bucktail jig. Bucktail jigs have been catching all kinds of fish for a very long time. 

 

To take full advantage of the details that Bob Clouser has designed into the Clouser Minnow, then tie it as he does. wink.png



#15 DarrellP

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 09:15 PM

I place the lead eye length wise from the hook eye pointing parallel along the hook shank. I mark where the eye ends and then use that as my tie in point. Gets them all placed the same. However, I will try the popper hook, now.
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