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2019 Fly Tying Symposium


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24 replies to this topic

#1 flytire

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 05:53 AM

just a reminder
 
November 23 & 24, 2019

Google for info

Respect someones else's ideas. We are all different people. Your way is not the only way.

Never argue with a self proclaimed expert


#2 primeflycompany

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 10:00 AM

I see a lot of overhackled Instagram flies that won't fish well and aren't worth the trouble to tie on the tippet....

Before you call me old school- I'm a new school tyer. Sadly, when I came to the sport I missed the shows where the real fly tyers tied. Guys like Rene Harrop, Shane Stalcup, Gary Borger, Mark Sedotti, Swisher, Rickards, all the Catskill guys. 

Just to be specific- take a look at that fly center left. It's a perversion of a great fly, Harrop's Last Chance Cripple. Yet the tyer ignored how the fly is supposed to be fished in tying it, and put enough hackle on there to tie 2 tall riding duns.....a cripple? Hardly. 

Always a great show though- it's just becoming harder to find guys who have any foundation in fishing and practical design. 


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#3 mikechell

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 10:48 AM

It's a perversion of a great fly, Harrop's Last Chance Cripple. 

Perversion?  Isn't that a bit ... harsh ... in a hobby riddled with variations on ancient patterns?

 

If someone fished that fly, and caught fish with it ... doesn't that make your opinion worthless?

 

I don't mean to sound argumentative ... just put my "hackles on edge."

 

Tie one and put up a picture showing the "right way".


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#4 flytire

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 10:56 AM

yes please tie one so we all can see the right (new school ) way to tie it

 

the demuths will be at the show. maybe you could point that out to them

 

it was a pamplet reminder of the symposium coming at the end of the month not a critique of the flies


Respect someones else's ideas. We are all different people. Your way is not the only way.

Never argue with a self proclaimed expert


#5 primeflycompany

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 11:26 AM

 

It's a perversion of a great fly, Harrop's Last Chance Cripple. 

Perversion?  Isn't that a bit ... harsh ... in a hobby riddled with variations on ancient patterns?

 

If someone fished that fly, and caught fish with it ... doesn't that make your opinion worthless?

 

I don't mean to sound argumentative ... just put my "hackles on edge."

 

Tie one and put up a picture showing the "right way".

 

It is a bit harsh, yes. I was being a little over the top to drive my viewpoint home. It's a beautiful fly, and I have no doubt the ability of the tyer is great, just maybe question their judgement.  but it has enough hackle wraps to tie 2 dun patterns, so it isn't going to sit in the film and fish like the way Rene designed it. To show you one tied the right way, I don't need to tie one, I will simply point you to the original pattern designer's dvd, "Harrop Family Ties". 

 


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#6 Flicted

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 11:48 AM

Thanks for the information about the symposium. Maybe they could use a judge.

#7 flytire

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 12:21 PM

:) :)

Respect someones else's ideas. We are all different people. Your way is not the only way.

Never argue with a self proclaimed expert


#8 Mark Knapp

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 01:45 PM

Many times, in any given genre, an task is accomplished with the purpose of demonstrating ones ability to do it well, instead of it's original intent.

 

I'm a novice fly tier but I can see that those flies are over dressed. I also recognize that they were not necessarily intended to be fished, they were intended to look nice on the cover of this pamphlet and demonstrate the tiers ability to make nice hackles, among other things. I'm not saying it's right or that I even like the look of it, I'm just saying I understand why it's done.

 

Full disclosure here, I am often guilty of over dressing flies.

 

There are many tiers here on the forum that tie flies way nicer than they need to be in order to catch fish (and much nicer than the originator tied them), they are tied and posted here so that we can appreciate the abilities of the tiers and the art form. I do appreciate them and I am glad that they are posted here.

 

I see it in knife making all the time. Elements in knives are included solely to demonstrate the abilities of the knife maker and have no practical purpose other than that. "Hell, I seen me do it".



#9 mikechell

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:37 PM

It's a perversion 

 

 

Full disclosure here, I am often guilty of over dressing flies.

laugh.png Pervert !!!


Barbed hooks rule!
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#10 Mark Knapp

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:51 PM

 

It's a perversion 

 

 

Full disclosure here, I am often guilty of over dressing flies.

laugh.png Pervert !!!

 

I'm working on it. It's a twelve step program, and a have to register in a national data base of fly over-dressers. There's a place in Arizona that I can check myself into but it's expensive. I think I'll try to beat the affliction myself. Paying attention to some of the guys here should help.



#11 mikechell

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 02:55 PM

Here in Florida, we hide the evidence in the water ... usually on the end of a LONG piece of string attached to a rod.  When the hackle cop passes out of range, we can pull it back in and admire our work.

I know your water doesn't always allow hiding things, since it gets too hard to sink into.  (Yuck, just thinking about that is ... ugh!)


Barbed hooks rule!
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#12 Mogup

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 04:02 PM

I think primeflycompany makes some valid points. I think the flies pictured are all pretty much over hackled and I think most shows these days lack the heavy hitters of yesterday and that's not to say there are not some fine tyers at these shows but many of them don't have long years experience of the master tyers at shows in the past. I also understand the OP was just posting an FYI that is appreciated and was not necessarily looking for a critique.

#13 SilverCreek

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 09:37 AM

What he said ^^^^^^^

 

The photo of the flies is designed to grab our attention for the show and the observation of overhackling is valid as well. I do appreciate the information about the show.

 

Here are two videos of the Last Chance Cripple tied by two well known fly tying instructors - Hans Weilenmann and Tim Flagler

 

Hans Weilenmann

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WhNHG4rYbiY

 

Tim Flagler

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cRgZDFsD4rg

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Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#14 Flicted

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 11:20 AM

The bad thing is, everyone thinks their way is the best way. The good thing is, everyone's way is the best way. The only originals are the ones tied by Harrop. There are reasons to use a different color or a few more/less turns of hackle. I will try to match the original as closely as possible, but not to a fault. A show fly called Harrops Last Chance Cripple should be judged by how closely it matches the original. A last chance cripple that I fish may be tied differently based on the natural I am imitating, weather and light conditions, or smooth vs. rough surface. The number of turns may also vary based on the quality of the hackle.

#15 mikechell

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Posted 06 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

The bad thing is, everyone thinks their way is the best way. The good thing is, everyone's way is the best way. 

Well put.

As I said earlier ... this is a hobby full to bursting with variations.   There's almost nothing that can be called "new".  But there are a plethora of "new" ways to tie old originals.


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis