Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

Grub hooks for extended body dry flies

fly tying fly hooks extended body grub caddis J:son Roncallo

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 FlorentineJohn

FlorentineJohn

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:54 AM

Hi folks,

 

Some of you may be familiar with Agostino Roncallo's CDC flies (not only CDC, but he's best known for those.) See https://www.flydream...roncallo-u99378

 

Here's one of his flies, the Mirage, tied with one CDC feather: https://www.youtube....h?v=lp-37RH2MOc

 

 

He says he uses grub fly hooks.

 

J:son flies also use extended bodies, and unlike Roncallo, not just for mayflies - but they suggest an ultra-short dry fly hook, which they manufacture, for all their dry flies.

 

 

My questions are:

  1. Are grub and caddis hooks the same?
  2. Is there a hook that will work for most extended body flies: Roncallo's CDC, J:son, "regular" extended body flies? (Could you kindly provide examples?)

Finally, another (slightly unrelated) question, still about hooks: in Matching Major Eastern Hatches, Henry Ramsay calls for 2XS (short) wide-gap dry fly hooks such as the Tiemco 2488 when tying his CDC Adult Caddis. Do you think I can use regular-sized dry fly hooks instead, and just keep the body shorter (instead of buying more hooks)?

 

Thanks!

 

Confused in Connecticut

 

PS The e-book My CDC Flies by Roncallo is available for free here: Part 1, Part 2.

 



#2 flytire

flytire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,376 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:58 AM

 

 

  1. Are grub and caddis hooks the same?

 

yes

 

Do you think I can use regular-sized dry fly hooks instead, and just keep the body shorter (instead of buying more hooks)?

 

yes

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1600&bih=757


The fish care less than we do!


#3 Flicted

Flicted

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 412 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

You "can" use anything.  Try it with different hooks until you get the look you want.



#4 Philly

Philly

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,586 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 10:15 AM

I use the 2488 for my dry caddis patterns, mainly the CDC and Elk.    I picked up  some Gamakatsu B10S Stinger hooks in size 12 and 14.  Planned to tie some fry patterns on them, but I think I'll use them for some of the CDC and Elk I plan to tie.


"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."

#5 Sandan

Sandan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:17 AM

The Iwan-e-dun, an extended body mayfly is tied on a 2488.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Iwan E-dun_vise (2).jpg


#6 chugbug27

chugbug27

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:18 PM

Hey Florentine, that PDF "book" has a nice variety of good looking CDC patterns. Thanks for posting
cb27

#7 Poopdeck

Poopdeck

    You damn kids, get off my lawn!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,827 posts

Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:22 PM

That is a nice bookmark. Thanks for including it in your post. Don't get wrapped around all minutia associated with hooks. I rarely use hooks that are specifically named in the different patterns. Just tie away.

#8 FIN-ITE 34

FIN-ITE 34

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 577 posts

Posted 12 April 2019 - 05:35 AM

If you are planning on using only CDC then I would suggest that you stay with a lighter weight hook. As had been suggested the Tiemco 2488 is a good choice with lesser expensive versions being Umpqua U201 and JS 510.



#9 fshng2

fshng2

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,171 posts

Posted 13 April 2019 - 10:00 AM

Agree with what others have said regarding style hooks.
My rule of thumb is thin wire for floating and thicker wire otherwise. Length is less of a concern.
Thanks for posting Agostino Roncallo's patterns.
Very innovative and brilliant tyer. One noteworthy pattern is the Thorax with X of foam.

#10 WJG

WJG

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:24 AM

I am a big fan of this style hook.  Grub hook, egg hook, caddis pupa, emergers, on and on, many names   I like this styles' ability to hook and hold fish.  Wide gape and the short curved shank seem to hook hard and not lever out for me.  The Tiemco 2488 are great for dry/emergers and something like the 2457 sinks faster for my nymph attempts.  Many patterns can be adapted to this hook style and they do look more correct in my introspective world.,



#11 Dave

Dave

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 704 posts

Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:34 PM

Hey Florentine, that PDF "book" has a nice variety of good looking CDC patterns. Thanks for posting

I'll second that.  Thanks



#12 Crackaig

Crackaig

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,270 posts

Posted 15 April 2019 - 02:28 PM

The first detached body flies I came across were crane fly imitations. For some reason they were tied on long shank light wire hooks. Just the 1/4 of the shank immediately behind the eye was used, the rest just hung out the back of the thorax, serving no purpose I could see. As a result I reasoned like this. The steel of the hook is your biggest enemy when it comes to creating a fly that stays on the surface. I could use a shorter hook, with a shank length of only 1/4 the long shank hook. Having saved 3/4 of the hook shank in steel I could use a much heavier hook (better to play the fish with) yet still have less steel in the fly. For this reason I still tie those flies on a short shank hook.
The first time I came across using a grub hook for extended body flies was watching Oliver Edwards. He used them for his Mahican May. The advantages are two fold. The hook turns away from the body so you do not get the cocked up look to the body, Also they make a keel for the fly (so long as you have the hook point below the fly wink.png  ).

May USD_0094_zpsrh5nb2v1.jpg May USD_0092_zpsfj4dwfqy.jpg

These were really tied because someone told me I couldn't tie them. However they illustrate the advantage of a grub type hook for detached bodies.

Cheers,

C.


"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end"


#13 FlorentineJohn

FlorentineJohn

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:43 PM

Thank you all so much for your help! Glad to hear that grub and caddis hooks are the same - I don't need things to get even more complex. As to the hook, the TMC 2488 looks great!



#14 FlorentineJohn

FlorentineJohn

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

By the way, what would you say is the ratio of caddis/emerger hook to dry fly with emerger body? I imagine tying a size 12 (extended body included) dry fly on a size 12 hook would not make sense...

 

Thanks again.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: fly tying, fly hooks, extended body, grub, caddis, J:son, Roncallo