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Confused on feather selections. HELP


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29 replies to this topic

#16 chugbug27

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 10:57 AM

Poor quality materials and tools are destined to discourage beginner tiers and cause greater expense when the time comes to replace them.[/background][/font][/color][/size]


That was my lesson. Keough. Two half capes $21 each. Then I bought my first whiting cape, the clouds broke, and I saw the light.
cb27

#17 Poopdeck

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:15 PM

Poor quality materials and tools are destined to discourage beginner tiers and cause greater expense when the time comes to replace them.[/background][/font][/color][/size]

That was my lesson. Keough. Two half capes $21 each. Then I bought my first whiting cape, the clouds broke, and I saw the light.
Couldn't agree more on material. Couldn't disagree more on tools. I buy all cheap tools. Some I have had for 30 years of heavy duty bucktail jig use and I still use them today. I've never broken a tool or worn out a tool, nor does the most expensive tool do the job any better. To call them tools is a bit of a joke. As tools they are the most least stressed tools ever, tolerances don't matter and every one of them can be made in almost any garage and still have the same results.

With that said, there is nothing wrong with buying expensive stuff. Some people like expensive stuff while others dont. Neither is right neither is wrong. Suggesting that you need to buy expensive tools to tie better or with less frustration is flat out wrong.

#18 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 09:18 PM

I have and still do raise chickens.  And I have used my own rooster capes (Harry and Elsie Darbee were idols of mine).  But the breeding that lead to the Whiting necks is far and away beyond anything you find on an egg farm.  Just astonishing.


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#19 foambug

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 11:31 PM

Here's a question,......has anyone ever been to the Whitley farm in Colorado? An do they have a " bargain cave" ?...jus wondering.....

#20 vicente

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 11:35 PM

Poor quality materials and tools are destined to discourage beginner tiers and cause greater expense when the time comes to replace them.[/background][/font][/color][/size]

That was my lesson. Keough. Two half capes $21 each. Then I bought my first whiting cape, the clouds broke, and I saw the light.
Couldn't agree more on material. Couldn't disagree more on tools. I buy all cheap tools. Some I have had for 30 years of heavy duty bucktail jig use and I still use them today. I've never broken a tool or worn out a tool, nor does the most expensive tool do the job any better. To call them tools is a bit of a joke. As tools they are the most least stressed tools ever, tolerances don't matter and every one of them can be made in almost any garage and still have the same results.

With that said, there is nothing wrong with buying expensive stuff. Some people like expensive stuff while others dont. Neither is right neither is wrong. Suggesting that you need to buy expensive tools to tie better or with less frustration is flat out wrong.

I feel like it depends on what tool and how cheap it is, I have 2 whip finishers one is cheap and it's so bad I can barely use it the other is a not super expensive but not cheap at least higher mid grade and it's awesome, cheap bobbins also suck, 10 or 15$ gets you a nice ceramic one that works well the bottom end ones are pretty terrible from my experience.

#21 tjm

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 04:48 AM

Any Darbee stock, Charlie?



#22 Poopdeck

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 06:16 AM

I bent up a whip finisher from fishing wire and a coffee stirrer. Works great and is as good as my other two, although it has some flex to it but that flex does not make a difference. My most expensive bobbin cost 6 bucks. I have about 15 or 16 of them and they are ceramic inserts. No problems. The steel tubes should be avoided. Terra is my friend and could be yours as well.

#23 SilverCreek

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:42 AM



 

 

 

 

25841000-2T.jpg

 

$64.99 @ https://store.flyfis...-p/25841000.htm

 

 

 

 

Not your fault Flytire, but the seller should not show half a Cree neck as part of a Whiting hackle starter pack. 

 

Look at the color separation of the white vs the black on the Cree vs the Grizzly half neck in the illustration. The Grizzly is a very poor neck with a washed out black color and the Cree, besides being a Cree, the neck has deeper colored black striping. Not only is the Cree is better than hackle pack quality AND I would bet that a Cree neck is never part of a hackle pack.

 

Here are two actual hackle packs from the same seller showing the hackle quality.

 

The top pack has a furnace neck (note the dark black stripe at the center of the hackle) and NOT a pure coachman brown neck that is what is needed for an Adams. The second pack has a coachman brown neck AND a black neck that is more useful than the pale cream neck in the upper pack.

 

The point is that one should examine necks in these packs. I think it is even more important since this is where seller can get rid of their "garbage" necks and saddles that they cannot even sell as the pro grade.

 

809583150_o.jpg

 

 

913721235_o.jpg


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#24 kyblev

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:01 PM

All the input on this thread has been very valuable to me and an education experience. I took advise from some of you and called Collins. Man that guy was great. He listened to what type and size flies I would be tying and steered me in the right direction. He even went as far as to explain to me how to take care of my feathers. I thought it was great also when you purchase the cape, you get the saddle also. Sent out check today, so pretty excited to get the feathers and start tying.

#25 Charlie P. (NY)

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 02:30 PM

Any Darbee stock, Charlie?

 

No.  That would be something. 

 

We raise for meat, now mostly layers.  We only keep a dozen or so birds and multiple roosters don't play nice together.  Though some of our Ameraucana hens obligingly produce what looks for all the world like a partridge feather

 

If you have tried to raise birds for the feathers you appreciate what a deal the Whiting capes are.  They must raise them in individual cages.

 

Though Murray McMurray does offer a "Fly Tyer's Special" selection of roosters.  ;-)  https://www.mcmurray...er_special.html


   Not that Pearsall

 

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#26 chugbug27

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 03:55 PM

Sounds like a great choice kyblev, congrats on jumping in
cb27

#27 tjm

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:44 PM

 

If you have tried to raise birds for the feathers you appreciate what a deal the Whiting capes are.  They must raise them in individual cages.

We've had chickens since I can remember (early '50s) and many breeds, very rare to have a rooster with very many usable hackle, so I do appreciate the effort gone into for feather production. The "game chickens" will occasionally have some decent looking  feathers but the stems are often brittle. 

I read once that Harry live plucked his birds so as to have them produce again. I think I read that all the genetic hackle stock bred today has some connection to their flock. Seems they were generous with eggs. 

Whiting does a fantastic job but the guys that he inherited his knowledge and start-up stock from deserve large credits.

Anyone that thinks any of today's quality hackle are expensive should tie a few dozen  dries with Indian necks.



#28 kyblev

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:48 AM

Well, I went with Collins. What a great guy, and a great education. Charlie will listen to what you are looking for and give great advise and recommendations. I know he's probably very busy, but he will take the time to make sure you are getting what you want. After reading reviews about Feather Emporium, I decided to not take that chance. Collins Hackle Farm 5 star.

#29 Rjohn7

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 01:22 AM

I've always been very pleased with Charlies help. 



#30 Charlie1947

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 03:52 PM

https://www.google.c.....1.U72erskG_LA


Hi Mike,
Thanks so much for the link, very helpful! There are actually several helpful links there too!
I really appreciate you sharing the links!
Kind Regards,
Charlie1947