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Natural Dun Float


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10 replies to this topic

#1 Byron

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:06 PM

I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but here goes:

 

It has been my experience of observation, over many, many years of fly fishing that, IN GENERAL, before taking flight, duns tend to float downstream "facing downstream".  Granted, many times currents and micro currents change their drift, but that is why I say "In General".

 

If I my observations are correct, that is why I tend to fish either downstream to fish, or, at the least, sort of across and down in order that the fly will, in its float, be oriented to floating wings first headed downstream.

 

Agree or disagree?

 



#2 Flat Rock native

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:22 PM

I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but here goes:
 
It has been my experience of observation, over many, many years of fly fishing that, IN GENERAL, before taking flight, duns tend to float downstream "facing downstream".  Granted, many times currents and micro currents change their drift, but that is why I say "In General".
 
If I my observations are correct, that is why I tend to fish either downstream to fish, or, at the least, sort of across and down in order that the fly will, in its float, be oriented to floating wings first headed downstream.
 
Agree or disagree?


+1

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#3 Bruce Norikane

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 06:52 PM

Agree, that's how naturals seem to float.

 

Although picky trout sometimes prefer a downstream presentation.



#4 mikechell

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:26 PM

Since the flies have no "rudder" or other steering mechanisms except their wings, I don't actually agree with the downstream orientation theory.  If there's no wind, then it might be true, given the passage through the air on the current would turn them downstream.  

Given any wind stronger than the downstream speed, and the fly will be turned headfirst into the wind regardless of current direction.


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#5 Crackaig

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:11 AM

Not sure I follow your reasoning. Presuming that you are making a straight cast, not messing around with complex currents the fly will float downstream tail first from a downstream cast. The leader would have to hook around to give you a head first drift. The fly being "tethered" from up stream.  Whereas with an upstream straight cast the fly would land and float downstream head first.

 

There is another factor to consider as well. Which way are the fish facing? For the most part they face into the current. Is it better to approach a fish from a position where the fish can not see you, or stand in his line of sight?

 

There are times when fishing downstream works well, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. The major reason for fishing downstream is so that you can shuffle your feet, dislodging the insects, and creating a trail of, effectively, bait, to fish your fly amongst. An approach which will see you thrown off most waters here.

Cheers,

C.


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by the clean end"


#6 Bruce Norikane

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 10:36 AM

Not sure I follow your reasoning. Presuming that you are making a straight cast, not messing around with complex currents the fly will float downstream tail first from a downstream cast. The leader would have to hook around to give you a head first drift. The fly being "tethered" from up stream.  Whereas with an upstream straight cast the fly would land and float downstream head first.

 

...

 

True. On a downstream cast the tail will go first, unlike a natural. However, downstream casts are sometimes the best or only way to pick off a picky trout.  Some believe the downstream cast is better because the fly is seen before the tippet or line. 

 

The point is, wing first presentation is more like a floating dun, but downstream sometimes works better.



#7 SilverCreek

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:18 AM

I agree that mayflies tend to face downstream.

 

There are two possible reasons. One is the aerodynamic reason that they mayflies orient INTO the wind and the downstream current creates it's own breeze by moving the insect through the air.

 

The second possibility is that as the nymphs migrate up through the water column, they naturally face downstream as they rise. They rise in the direction the current is moving because it requires less energy. Therefore, they will also emerge facing downstream.

 

I knew of a fly tier who tied his flies so the tails were over the hook eye and the wings were at the back of the fly. He preferred fishing downstream.

I don't know if reverse tying the fly makes a significant difference.

 

I will take issue with the belief that the downstream cast is LESS effective than the upstream cast. Actually, the most difficult fisheries require a downstream cast if one is to catch fish with any regularity. Difficult fisheries such as the Railroad Ranch section of Henry’s Fork and Silvercreek Preserve  in Idaho require the downstream technique.

 

See this post:

 

http://www.flytyingf...=85110&p=690748

 

I suggest that everyone listen to the podcast on Silver Creek that is playing free now at:

 

http://www.askaboutflyfishing.com/

 

To download a show: 

 

  1. Locate the Listen/Download Podcast (MP3) link on the show page, then right-click or Ctrl+Click (for Mac) on the link. A contextual menu will display.
  2. Choose Save Target As, Save Link As or Download Linked File As. The menu option name will depend on the browser you are using.
  3. A browsing window displays that you can use to find a location on your computer's hard drive to save the file. You may want to rename the file at this time using the show title.
  4. Save the file. 

Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#8 Chris_NH

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:28 AM

Your observation is likely correct, but to say that a downstream facing dun would draw more takes, with all other things being equal seems like a stretch.

 

I think it's no more complicated than doing whatever you have to do to keep your fly line from floating over the fish and getting a drag free drift, regardless of which way the fly is facing.  Different types of water benefit from different approaches to achieve this, so always fishing upstream, or always fishing downstream can't be optimal.



#9 Byron

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Posted 09 April 2017 - 01:23 AM

I said that because all the books showing "as the trout sees the insect/fly", the first portion of the fly/insect they see are the wing tips. Thus, if the fly is floating downstream wing-first, the wing tips would be more prominent and seen better........seems to me.

#10 spiralspey

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:51 PM

I was on the river today watching little olives and march browns drift down the river and immediately thought of this thread. There was a brisk wind blowing downstream and almost every mayfly was drifting facing upstream into the wind. When the wind died the bugs were facing downstream. I know it's hardly scientific, but it seems to me the way mayflies are shaped must make them face into the wind.
Oh, and the fish didn't seem to care which way the naturals or my fly was oriented.

#11 Sandan

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:30 AM

Not sure I follow your reasoning. Presuming that you are making a straight cast, not messing around with complex currents the fly will float downstream tail first from a downstream cast. The leader would have to hook around to give you a head first drift. The fly being "tethered" from up stream.  Whereas with an upstream straight cast the fly would land and float downstream head first.

 

There is another factor to consider as well. Which way are the fish facing? For the most part they face into the current. Is it better to approach a fish from a position where the fish can not see you, or stand in his line of sight?

 

There are times when fishing downstream works well, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. The major reason for fishing downstream is so that you can shuffle your feet, dislodging the insects, and creating a trail of, effectively, bait, to fish your fly amongst. An approach which will see you thrown off most waters here.

Cheers,

C.

The San Juan shuffle is highly unethical. In fact it's illegal in New Mexico.  The major reason for fishing downstream is to deliver your fly before the leader/tippet gets into the fish's cone of vision.  As to whether its better to approach from upstream or down I'd say that's dependent on the particular situation you have. I'm a big fan of fishing upstream and employing a curve cast to deliver my fly without the leader/tippet spooking the fish.