I have fly lines that were on reels I purchased from online sites, a couple of them have sinking lines and I would like to cut the sinking portion off and make sink tip leaders. Obvious problem is I have no idea what density and or sink rate these lines are (nor do I know the manufacturer) I have made sink tips from t-11 and t-14 line before but I always knew what grain weight and sink rate I was dealing with. My question is can I simply weigh the sinking portion of the line (in grains) and divide by the length of the line and get an approximate idea of weight and sink rate. Example; if 20 foot of line weighs 200 grains will it act somewhat like a t-10 line? Thank you
Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com
FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!
If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account
|Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)|
|Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes|
Sink tip leaders
Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:10 PM
Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:43 PM
You can just buy sinking leaders,look uo versa leaders they're available in various lengths and sink rates.
Sure I can buy them and I have many times but why not use what is sitting on a shelf not being used if possible. Better to be re purposed/recycled than end up in a landfill
Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:13 PM
Posted 13 October 2019 - 12:49 AM
My question is can I simply weigh the sinking portion of the line (in grains) and divide by the length of the line and get an approximate idea of weight and sink rate.
Simple answer= no. two lines the same length can weigh the same and have different sink rates- as an example consider a pound of wood and a pound of brick each 8" long..
Even knowing the diameter isn't enough because some lines are more dense in the tapered area to achieve uniform sink rates. They manipulate things like air bubbles and tungsten powder in the plastic.
My suggestion is to measure 30' and weigh that on your gram scale to determine what weight (this can be off a few grains if you don't support the rest of the line level with the weigh cup) the lines are meant to be, they may work for you as is or you may be able to sell them as is given a weight-
or you can cast them into a pool or other known depth of water and count down til they reach the bottom- if one sinks 60" in 10 seconds it sinks 6 inches per second, if it takes 20 seconds it sinks at 3 in/sec ect. Comparing the sink time with one you know in the same water would give you an approximation.
Posted 13 October 2019 - 11:18 AM
tjm: great analogy with brick and wood, I get it. A buddy of mine suggested the throw it in a pre determined amount of water and count solution, seems simple even for me. Are you saying you can use the same method with a sinking line as you do with a floating line to determine what weight rod the line was designed for; weigh the first 30 ft and go to the chart? I would think the sinking line would weigh a great deal more and you dont know if its designed to sink at 2 fps, 4 fps, etc. ? In the past I have just put an unknown sinking line on different rods and worked thru them til I found one it seemed to fit. Very time consuming. Thanks
Posted 13 October 2019 - 11:24 AM
Posted 13 October 2019 - 12:27 PM
I think what you are trying to do is create a heavy sinking head with the required weight to load a specific rod. I have done this using a very old method. At one time a rod that was labeled and a "X" weight would be properly loaded with an "X" DT (double taper,) weight line. If you wanted to use a WF (weight forward,) line you would step up a weight or "X+1" If you were trying to us a shooting head on the same rod, you would step up two line weights to "X+2." Weather the line floated or sank didn't matter.
Every rod will cast several different line sizes (or weights,) and the type of line wouldn't matter. Which line size is indicated is what size line the manufacturer has decided would the best for that rod.
Trying to combine some unknown weight of the left on part of the head with the right amount of T10,11, or some other weighted leader will be a trial and error project. It would be easier to scrap the whole front portion of these lines, and build the head using new shooting heads of various weights, and lengths along with your sinking leader sections. These are quite commonly available for under $30 from Sierra Trading.
Posted 13 October 2019 - 01:32 PM
Thank you very much, I know a lot more now than when I first asked this question. Not as simple as I thought it would be or as easy when you are using t line that you know weight, sink rate, etc. I still think I will fool around with it tho, Im retired and its raining again in Mich so rivers are becoming high & muddy, once again.
Posted 13 October 2019 - 01:53 PM
Are you saying you can use the same method with a sinking line as you do with a floating line to determine what weight rod the line was designed for; weigh the first 30 ft and go to the chart?
yes, basically a 6wt line should weigh 160g +/-8g, sink or float or what ever. Again the with the brick and wood the brick is more dense. The difference between sinking and floating is density relative to water, the floating, intermediate and fast sinking lines must all weigh close to the same in order for a particular rod to cast them, density is what determines how fast or slowly they sink. Not an exact scientific answer but if you think in terms of mass, what we normally refer to as weight is the mass of a number of units, and density is the mass per unit. I think the important consideration here would be the contact area between the bottom half of the semi-cylindrical line and the water in units of area, Line being of round cross section and having an unknown taper makes it impossible for me to calculate that area, thus impossible to calculate the density. Experimentation is the solution.
If you want precision heads, buy them from folks that have the equipment and expertise to make them consistently, if just playing around with the old lines to make some different is the goal, lots of time and lots of casting and lots of experimentation are the answers. You can also search the internet and maybe find better answers than we can give or at least the same answers with better explanations. Research is part of development. Good luck.