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28 replies to this topic

#16 Piker20

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:42 PM

I kinda get where you're coming from Mike but as someone who's mum was very strict I told her very little if anything of where I went or what I did. I didn't come to harm and hurt no one else but I would rather have my kids be open with me and feel they can share. I fully expect them to still sneak about because I believe that is just part of maturing and you have to make your own mistakes but I have always taught them to admit to a mistake and then we discuss it sensibly. They rarely get a telling off because the shame/embarrassment/guilt is enough but if they haven't been open and we discover they have done wrong then they will be punished. So far it has worked for us so fingers crossed it'll continue.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

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#17 steeldrifter

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:50 PM

Mike that is what I think someone needs to be careful of though, scolding and getting them to understand is the goal, embarrassing to the point of humiliation is simply going to have a reverse effect than what the desired outcome is. You simply will not stop something that is a natural part of being a human (sexuality). There's no way to stop that. The goal is to discuss it in a healthy manner so that they understand at this point in their young lives it is not yet acceptable and yet you want them to know they can come to you for serious issues down the road without fear of embarrassment. If you humiliate them now then that will 100% close any doors down the road for them coming to you for things like this out of fear of embarrassment.

 

Again, I am not a parent, but I did take care of my Niece & Nephew everyday from the time they were 4-13 while my Sister worked 8-10hrs per day so I know that it is a fine line to walk between teaching right from wrong and simply trying to force things on kids out of sheer will/embarrassment. Embarass them too much on this and they will resent it and all lines of communication on things like this down the road will be shut down.


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#18 Piker20

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:52 PM

^^^^. What he said
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

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#19 mikechell

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 01:53 PM

You're likely right.  All I can say is, it's obvious which kids in class got proper parenting (they show respect to elders) and which ones had parents who were friends (they expect everything to "go their way"... always).

 

 

I just see so many kids that are depressed when they don't get an "A" because they showed up.  They will not live happy lives.

 

I will bow out of this.  I am so glad I never had kids.  

I definitely don't qualify for babysitting, since I'd just use some "Nap Time Spray" and be done with it.

 

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#20 Poopdeck

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:22 PM

"WhatsApp would not be on my kids phones ever, for any reason. Any internet based messaging app is a bad thing. ... If they want to text friends then get them a phone connected to a network through a service provider."

Actually, I have a very legitimate use for WhatsApp.

I can send videos that won't go via regular text due to size. And WhatsApp videos come through in much higher quality than regular text, if I can even get it to go via text.

I never said WhatsApp does not have great value and legitimate use by responsible and moral people. I said it's the preferred app of hundreds of thousands of pedophiles who troll it 24 hours a day for young innocent minds that can be groomed to do what these immoral people want. It's untraceable so no one can ever find out who the kids are actually communicating with. Since I protected my kids from the boogeyman and perverts alike, I would never allow them to have an internet based messaging app where hundreds of thousands of pervs are actively trolling for my kids. Knowing this, what parent would?

I love all this goobley gook about trusting kids and letting them make mistakes so long as they are comfortable talking about it with me after the fact. I hear this all the time. My response to such nonsense; What happens if they don't have a chance to talk to you after the mistake? What happens when they do talk to you about it but they are changed and scarred for life because of the incident? I sure would want to prevent the scarring from ever happening over the trust to talk about it later. The level of deviance out there is unimaginable. The depths of perversion cannot be contemplated by even the most in tune parent. The reality is kids need constant guidance and supervision. Especially and most importantly on the internet and/or their smart phones. Childrens trust of their parents is not based on the freedom you give them on the internet or their smart phones. To think so is superficial at best,

I have good kids and they grew up to be very successful. That did not mean they did not have the potential to get in trouble on the internet. I have looked in depth into the smart phones of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of good kids with good parents. I can tell you what's in their phones is astonishing and will take your breath away. I can tell you every good parent will say there will be nothing to find in the phone except innocent kid stuff (because the kids only tell them about the cute innocent stuff they are doing.) I can also tell you that the non tech savvy parent will never find the bad stuff since the bad stuff is generally cloud based and not actually stored on the phone. I can tell you what every parent says AFTER their child becomes a victim, they wish they spied on them, they wish they checked their phones, and they wish they were more tech savvy. It's sad they were sold the false messiah of "I trust my kid" only later to learn how terribly wrong they were.

I was sure my good kids were not going to fall prey to a predator but I was not going to take even the most remotest of chances. This is the message all parents need to hear and understand. The problem is really that bad.

#21 Pyme Fisher

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:56 PM

I never said WhatsApp does not have great value and legitimate use by responsible and moral people. I said it's the preferred app of hundreds of thousands of pedophiles who troll it 24 hours a day for young innocent minds that can be groomed to do what these immoral people want.


I'll have to trust you on that, as I just can't fathom how some peoples' minds work (pedophilia, preying on young children, etc). I have a hard enough time managing my fully mature wife, I certainly don't need any more complications thrown in.

On a serious note, I am not "up" on so many things electronic and social media related.

And I'm actually quite happy with that.

Phone (yes, some of us still do that!), text (just started about a year ago), and found out about WhatsApp when I had to find a way to send a large video file.

That's pretty much my knowledge of this stuff.

#22 steeldrifter

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:19 PM

 

I love all this goobley gook about trusting kids and letting them make mistakes so long as they are comfortable talking about it with me after the fact. I hear this all the time. My response to such nonsense; What happens if they don't have a chance to talk to you after the mistake?

 

Who are you talking about there Greg, are you referring to what I said? Because I never said any of that far as trusting them or letting them make mistakes. So not sure if I'm off base thinking you were talking about my replies or if you were talking about something/someone else?


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#23 Poopdeck

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:31 AM

No no, just general things I hear from parents ad nauseam.

Perhaps I should tone my rhetoric down a bit but I am very passionate on this subject.

#24 Piker20

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 12:35 PM

No no, just general things I hear from parents ad nauseam.

Perhaps I should tone my rhetoric down a bit but I am very passionate on this subject.


Greg, I'm interested in how someone can trawl WhatsApp to find kids? On my app it asks if you want your number viewable by anyone outside contacts. So I had assumed it would not be possibly to receive unsolicited contact?
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#25 chugbug27

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 01:05 PM

I'm no expert but fwiw I've been using Whatsapp for a year or two now and have never been trolled or anything, unlike Skype
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#26 Poopdeck

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:05 PM

Well I'm not about to educate the general internet On how to Troll children to their immoral advantage. I will say the connection or "friendship" generally starts elsewhere and quickly goes to apps like WhatsApp, kik and many others. It very likely starts out on all the "safe" cute places kids go to with their parents blessings. Perhaps FB, instagram, YouTube, Snapchat or the multitude of internet games or safe places where kids can chat. But you see all those sites have some degree of danger to a perv so they redirect to a site that can't be traced no how and not by anybody such as the app WhatsApp. It is the safest most secure messaging app currently out there. It is there where they can ply their tradecraft with reckless abandon.

Many times kids get referred to "friends" of "friends." Internet friends of course, not real friends. It may start out as simple PMing on a safe educational site such as the various fly fishing sites out there. Then one day the new found friend says "hey hit me up on WhatsApp, I'm known as ABC. ABC then introduces the unsuspecting to other WhatsApp friends who most are simply different monikers of ABC. But who knows, none of it can be followed. Typically, the unsuspecting person also includes their circle of friends, siblings and cousins into ABC's circle of friends and vice versa. It's a tangled web and it's tangled purposely.

What many of you do not realize is the level of manipulation these people are capable of. They are masters of manipulation and what they say and do cannot even be imagined by us normal people. They are also masters of "friending" children and then covering their tracks and remaining nameless and faceless to us normal people. They also use time to their advantage. It's rare for there to be a hit and run. Typically the relationship is fostered for a protracted time period, further tangling the web. The perv is very busy making sure he keeps a steady supply of children on his radar because children grow up and the pervs need to nurture these relationships so he always has some on the hook. These guys are talking to hundreds of children of various ages to ensure a steady supply for his nefarious ways.

They are out there, your kids are being actively trolled. They may not know it but they are. They may not ever act on anything but they may. Remember when we use to say, IF your kids are exposed to drugs but now it has become WHEN your kids are exposed to drugs. Same applies to perverts on the internet.

Do as you will. I see no need for a child to be communicating with anybody for any reason via web based apps. The dangers are to real, to life altering and to prevalent for me to take on a chance in the name of trust, open communications, or a belief that my kids are good kids and they won't make a grave mistake.

#27 chugbug27

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:18 PM

Makes sense pd
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#28 Piker20

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 08:32 AM

Well I'm not about to educate the general internet On how to Troll children to their immoral advantage. I will say the connection or "friendship" generally starts elsewhere and quickly goes to apps like WhatsApp, kik and many others. It very likely starts out on all the "safe" cute places kids go to with their parents blessings. Perhaps FB, instagram, YouTube, Snapchat or the multitude of internet games or safe places where kids can chat. But you see all those sites have some degree of danger to a perv so they redirect to a site that can't be traced no how and not by anybody such as the app WhatsApp. It is the safest most secure messaging app currently out there. It is there where they can ply their tradecraft with reckless abandon.

Many times kids get referred to "friends" of "friends." Internet friends of course, not real friends. It may start out as simple PMing on a safe educational site such as the various fly fishing sites out there. Then one day the new found friend says "hey hit me up on WhatsApp, I'm known as ABC. ABC then introduces the unsuspecting to other WhatsApp friends who most are simply different monikers of ABC. But who knows, none of it can be followed. Typically, the unsuspecting person also includes their circle of friends, siblings and cousins into ABC's circle of friends and vice versa. It's a tangled web and it's tangled purposely.

What many of you do not realize is the level of manipulation these people are capable of. They are masters of manipulation and what they say and do cannot even be imagined by us normal people. They are also masters of "friending" children and then covering their tracks and remaining nameless and faceless to us normal people. They also use time to their advantage. It's rare for there to be a hit and run. Typically the relationship is fostered for a protracted time period, further tangling the web. The perv is very busy making sure he keeps a steady supply of children on his radar because children grow up and the pervs need to nurture these relationships so he always has some on the hook. These guys are talking to hundreds of children of various ages to ensure a steady supply for his nefarious ways.

They are out there, your kids are being actively trolled. They may not know it but they are. They may not ever act on anything but they may. Remember when we use to say, IF your kids are exposed to drugs but now it has become WHEN your kids are exposed to drugs. Same applies to perverts on the internet.

Do as you will. I see no need for a child to be communicating with anybody for any reason via web based apps. The dangers are to real, to life altering and to prevalent for me to take on a chance in the name of trust, open communications, or a belief that my kids are good kids and they won't make a grave mistake.


Ah I see what you mean. WhatsApp Facebook etc create that lack of traceability and if kids are directed there from elsewhere then that's them exposed. Yeah we don't allow our kids on any social media accounts or online games so not an issue just now.
Is difficult how much to hold back from them when the Internet and related stuff will be a huge part of their careers and likely new employment chances compared to what out lives have been like.
Matthew 25: 35-36 "Out of every 100 men, 10 shouldnt even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior and he will bring the others back. "No man ever steps in the same river twice"   Heraclitus, 5 B.C

Based Scottish Highlands. UK

MUSTAD The wise anglers choice.

#29 Poopdeck

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 08:27 PM

Most sites can be tracked but with new technology it becomes harder and harder. The internet is a great and very useful resource for adults and children alike. Children however need to be actively monitored 100% of the time. Their online activity needs to be spied on by their more tech savvy parents. If you want open honest trustworthy communications with your kids then tell them your spying on their on line activity. Myself, I didn't tell them nothing because ALL kids lie or omit to their parents. If you tell them what you are doing then they won't do it at home or on their phones they will wait till their at a friends house who has parents so absorbed in their own social media experience to actively parent.

They need to be taught internet safety such as turning off their locational settings and not posting pictures that have their school names or club team name just to name a few. If they want to talk to friends then they need to make a phone call or pay the friend a visit. Most importantly, children learn more from observing their parents then listening to them. Parents need to not be on FB, instagram, Snapchat, etc..... 24 hours a day. Parents should not be glued to their cell phones 24/7.

my kids are grown adult professional women now. When we get together we all sit around and laugh about the years they were growing up. They tell me things they use to do that they didn't dare tell me about when it happened. They also thank me every time the conversations come up. They thank me for being a tyrant, they thank me for making their social media experience less enjoyable and they thank me for being a good father and not a good friend. Why you ask? Because they realize what boneheads they were when they were teenagers and how insignificant social media really is.



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