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Mono rigging


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75 replies to this topic

#1 goofnoff

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 06:08 PM

What do you guys think about it?  

 

Have you tried it?

 

What do you think about the "competition" nymph lines?

 

If this topic has been beaten to death I apologize.  



#2 Poopdeck

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:01 PM

Never heard of it so I googled it. Seems like bobber fishing to me. if you get enjoyment from it have at it.

#3 mikechell

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:13 PM

Same here, Poopdeck ... I went a read an article about it.

Guy tries to defend it against those who say it's just spinning rod fishing with a fly rod.

I agree with those who say "it's just spinning rod fishing with a fly rod."


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#4 goofnoff

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:18 PM

Actually it is Euro nymphing.  Joe Humphreys has a whole section in the section of his book about deep nymphing with mono only.  He used Cortland flat monofilament.  He then designed a line for Cortland that is .022.  Now Rio and Sci Anglers has their own versions of the same diameter.  

 

Competition fisherman were using 25 feet of leader to "Euro nymph".  The rules now dictate the leader cannot be longer than twice the length of the rod.  



#5 goofnoff

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:21 PM

Nymph fishing in general is just bait fishing with a fly rod.  



#6 ben bell

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:40 PM

sounds like tenkara with a reel..why not?!

#7 Sandan

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 09:50 AM

https://troutbitten.com/the-mono-rig/



#8 spiralspey

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

I've watched several guys do it, and it was deadly effective. To me it's basically using spinning tactics on fly tackle. I view center pinning the same way. I got into fly fishing because I enjoy casting a fly line as much as hooking fish, and I accept the limitations that fly tackle has in many situations when compared with standard fishing gear.

#9 Rocco

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

spiralspey,

 

Amen!

 

Just because the line makers try to cash in on the new trend does not make it anything but spinning. 

 

As for dries only addicts, enjoy and go with God,  But snarky comments about wet offerings are not  going to be much comfort when you see adept practitioners engaged most of the day with more and bigger fish than  you will move..  And we can even switch to dries during hatches to experience that thrill too.  Ahh, the costs of purity.

 

Rocco  



#10 tjm

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

Once upon a time the standard way to fish was what is now called tenkara, then a simple reel was added and the line could be longer thus flycasting evolved, eventually some one added weight and live chickens to the longer line and reel combo and bait casting was invented, the spinning reel made it so we could actually cast very light baits on the newly invented monofilament. 

There has not been much really new invented in fishing over the last fifty years, so the sales folks have rebadged all the previous methods as new inventions.

I read fishing terms all the time that I have never encountered before and when I search the net for articles that explain them, I find that they are brand new (to me) terms for methods I learned in the '50s and '60s from older fishers.

 

On another thread (trolling) there has been some mention of rigging fly rods with mono, I recall this being  common. A nymph under an indicator is an imitation of a worm and bobber, tenkara is an imitation or a worm with out a bobber on a stick without a reel, Euro nymphing looks to me like tenkaea with a reel. And so on and on, I say learn all methods and use the  ones you like.

 

Rebadging or rebranding a method known for centuries does not make it better or worse but it does provide reason for writers to publish new articles and a means of selling products to a new audience.

 

Spin fishing is just fly fishing without a flyline.



#11 goofnoff

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:08 PM

spiralspey,

 

Amen!

 

Just because the line makers try to cash in on the new trend does not make it anything but spinning. 

 

As for dries only addicts, enjoy and go with God,  But snarky comments about wet offerings are not  going to be much comfort when you see adept practitioners engaged most of the day with more and bigger fish than  you will move..  And we can even switch to dries during hatches to experience that thrill too.  Ahh, the costs of purity.

 

Rocco  

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   Not to put to fine a point on it but a real "purist" fishes only to a visibly rising fish, upstream, with a dry fly that matches the hatch.  Anything else is worm fishing.  So says Col Halford and the boys on the Hampshire chalk streams. 

 

When Skues wrote Minor Tactics of the Chalk Stream, about fishing a nymph as an emerger, Halford was scandalized.  Halford approached  Skues on the stream and exclaimed, "You cannot fish the Test and Itchen in this manner!"  To which Skues replied, "But I have, sir, I have!"  

 

I've been trout fishing since the 50's. But my father and uncle who taught me to fish were bait fisherman who fished spun minnows or crawlers with fly rods.  They grew up poor during the Depression and learned to fish for the table.  I bought my first dry fly from Fran Bettors in 1960 long before he owned his own shop.  He was promoting the Wulff Hair Coachmen in those days.  

 

I've always thought that if you are going to fish subsurface for trout, then why not use a spinning rod.  Mono takes drag out of the equation.  Wet fly fishing is the exception. 

 

I don't care how a person fishes as long as they are having fun and not hurting the environment.  .Personally, I know how and where to catch trout.  My thing comes from experimenting with  new flies and techniques. And I like figuring out how to catch trout where they are being pounded.  

 



#12 SilverCreek

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 05:43 PM


 

This blog has it wrong. You can't tightline nymph with a the traditional floating type of indicator. A tight line nympher stays in direct contact with the flies and a floating strike indicator suspends flies removing direct contact. Secondly, the point fly in a tight line rig stays in contact with the stream bottom, and a floating suspension device like traditional floating indicators suspends flies for most of the drift.

 

The blog is confusing long line nymphing with a strike indicator with the competition type of tight line nymphing and is trying to create a category of two styles that are mutually exclusive.

 

Tight line nymphing is not about how far you nymph away from your position. The Czech and Polish styes use short casts often just below the rod tip. So the technique is not defined by the length of the leader but by maintaining contact with the flies. So the latest terminology for this technique that is gaining tractions is "contact nymphing" or "direct contact nymphing".

 

Nor is it like spin fishing. Whereas long leaders can be used, they are tapered and not level nylon monofilament. Furthermore, contact nymphing fly rods/lines/leaders are able to cast very tiny micro nymphs like size 20 Perigon  (see below) with accuracy. There is no way a spinning rod would be able to cast such small nymphs with the accuracy and distance that a long fly rod could. If spinning outfits were better tools, there would be spin fishers doing it on fly  only waters.

 

troutline-caramel-perdigon.jpg

 

I have come to know Devin Olsen of the US Fly Fishing Team. Devin Olsen won an Individual Bronze Medal at the 2015 World Championships in Bosnia. He had the 3rd highest individual score in the the fly fishing equivalent of the Olympic Games. Team USA won a Silver Medal at that competition. Lance Egan won an Individual Bronze Medal at the last World Championships (2016) in Aspen, Colorado. Team USA won a Bronze Medal at that competition.

 

Devin Olsen and Lance Egan have new video (Modern Nymphing - European Inspired Techniques) which can be downloaded at Vimeo. I have 5 DVDs on Euro-direct contact nymphing and this is the best of the bunch. The video makes it pretty clear that this style of direct contact nymphing is neither strike indicator or spin fishing with a nymph.

 

If any two fly fishers know what direct contact nymphing is and is not, it is two medal winners at the World Fly Fishing Championships.


You can see the trailer for their video here:

 

https://vimeo.com/on.../modernnymphing

 

Devin also has a blog with hints and techniques:

 

http://www.tacticalflyfisher.com/blog/

 

Here’s a note from a first time “euronympher” fishing the driftless spring creeks of my home state.

 

http://www.tacticalf...e-euro-nympher/


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#13 Sandan

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 06:13 PM

 


 

This blog has it wrong. You can't tightline nymph with a the traditional floating type of indicator. A tight line nympher stays in direct contact with the flies and a floating strike indicator suspends flies removing direct contact. Secondly, the point fly in a tight line rig stays in contact with the stream bottom, and a floating suspension device like traditional floating indicators suspends flies for most of the drift.

 

The blog is confusing long line nymphing with a strike indicator with the competition type of tight line nymphing and is trying to create a category of two styles that are mutually exclusive.

 

Tight line nymphing is not about how far you nymph away from your position. The Czech and Polish styes use short casts often just below the rod tip. So the technique is not defined by the length of the leader but by maintaining contact with the flies. So the latest terminology for this technique that is gaining tractions is "contact nymphing" or "direct contact nymphing".

 

Nor is it like spin fishing. Whereas long leaders can be used, they are tapered and not level nylon monofilament. Furthermore, contact nymphing fly rods/lines/leaders are able to cast very tiny micro nymphs like size 20 Perigon  (see below) with accuracy. There is no way a spinning rod would be able to cast such small nymphs with the accuracy and distance that a long fly rod could. If spinning outfits were better tools, there would be spin fishers doing it on fly  only waters.

 

troutline-caramel-perdigon.jpg

 

I have come to know Devin Olsen of the US Fly Fishing Team. Devin Olsen won an Individual Bronze Medal at the 2015 World Championships in Bosnia. He had the 3rd highest individual score in the the fly fishing equivalent of the Olympic Games. Team USA won a Silver Medal at that competition. Lance Egan won an Individual Bronze Medal at the last World Championships (2016) in Aspen, Colorado. Team USA won a Bronze Medal at that competition.

 

Devin Olsen and Lance Egan have new video (Modern Nymphing - European Inspired Techniques) which can be downloaded at Vimeo. I have 5 DVDs on Euro-direct contact nymphing and this is the best of the bunch. The video makes it pretty clear that this style of direct contact nymphing is neither strike indicator or spin fishing with a nymph.

 

If any two fly fishers know what direct contact nymphing is and is not, it is two medal winners at the World Fly Fishing Championships.


You can see the trailer for their video here:

 

https://vimeo.com/on.../modernnymphing

 

Devin also has a blog with hints and techniques:

 

http://www.tacticalflyfisher.com/blog/

 

Here’s a note from a first time “euronympher” fishing the driftless spring creeks of my home state.

 

http://www.tacticalf...e-euro-nympher/

 

SilverCreek, I posted the link not because I agreed or disagreed with it but rather to get some more information out. I appreciate your taking the time to provide that critique and the clarification which ensued. I also appreciate your links. I'm about to check them out. I agree that tight line nymphing, direct contact, is distinct from indicator nymphing.  Both certainly have their times and places.  

I do agree with this statement from goffnoff, "I don't care how a person fishes as long as they are having fun and not hurting the environment.  "  and not breaking the law. 

Have fun, try new tactics and techniques and discuss 'em, both pro and con. To me that's what fishing is about. Of course hooking up and landing a few is nice too.



#14 SilverCreek

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 10:18 PM



SilverCreek, I posted the link not because I agreed or disagreed with it but rather to get some more information out. I appreciate your taking the time to provide that critique and the clarification which ensued. I also appreciate your links. I'm about to check them out. I agree that tight line nymphing, direct contact, is distinct from indicator nymphing.  Both certainly have their times and places.  

 

 

I do agree with this statement from goffnoff, "I don't care how a person fishes as long as they are having fun and not hurting the environment.  "  and not breaking the law. 

Have fun, try new tactics and techniques and discuss 'em, both pro and con. To me that's what fishing is about. Of course hooking up and landing a few is nice too.

 

 

Whenever classifications are discussed, there will be splitters and lumpers. A splitter is someone who sub-classifies or splits up the area of discussion into very specific categories and subcategories and sub-subcategories, etc. A lumper is the opposite. He does not want separate categories and lumps everything into just a few categories. 

 

My opinion is that a categories should not be so general that the name does not tell the individual enough knowledge to discern what is being discussed and yet not so specific that it excludes some areas that are being discussed. I believe the term mono rigging as defined in https://troutbitten.com/the-mono-rig/  does neither. It is confusing to me. It tells me nothing about how the fly is fished.

 

For example, if the technique is defined by the fact that a long taperer monofilament leader is being used, it tells me no more than if the fly rod with a fly line is being used. Allow me to explain. 

 

The author only discusses a mono rig long leader being used to nymph with a strike indicator or without a strike indicator. But he does not discuss dry fly or wet fly fishing with a long monofilament leader “mono rig.” So are we to conclude that “mono rigs” only can be only refer to nymphing? In fact, mono rigs with rod and long tapered monofilament leaders can be used to fish dry flies and wet flies. 

 

So why does the author not include these two other methods of using only a long tapered mono leader? He does not use it because it does not fit the “narrative” he is creating. It would dilute his narrative because he is trying to include only nymphing into the mono rig category and make it more specific to nymphing (splitter categorization). In reality, a mono rig is a lumping category containing all the major types of fly fishing. Defining a mono rig as limited to nymphing is confusing and in my view incorrect, because it is no more helpful than defining a classification called the fly line rig.

 

Finally, there are already terms which are sufficient to define those rigs. The French and Spanish national fly fishing teams developed these long leaders and their fishing methods at the world fly fishing championships. Therefore, original name for these leaders are French/Spanish nymphing leader or tactical nymphing leader. There is no need to Americanize it as a "mono rig." These other names have been in usage for years.


 

French_Spanish-Nymphing-Leader-399x300.g

 

Note that the commercial leader package states that the leader is for both nymphing and dry fly fishingand is 46 feet long. 

 

39671160345_6f78fe16af_b.jpg


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#15 goofnoff

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 01:42 AM

The blogster at troutbitten does mention fishing dries with the mono rig.  He also states he fishes mainly with out a suspender.  I think you've given him short shrift.  

 

I've also seen dries fished with spinning rods.  Back in the 70's they even sold something called a fly casting float.  It was a clear plastic bubble. One evening on the Ausable I saw a kid catch trout after trout fishing a dry off the bubble.  

 

You can also nymph with a spinning rod. A good combination is a a marabou jig for an anchor fly and a nymph dropper.  

 

Troutbitten also suggests using the mono rig to fish streamers even with long casts.  

 

Kelly Galloup has an alternative method of direct nymphing.  He uses a drop shot technique with two nymphs either with or without a suspender.  The nice thing about a drop shot is it takes the dead spot out of your leader.  However, if you cast any distance you still have the problem of fly line drag mono eliminates.  

 

This will sound weird but I like fishing streams that are accessible to anyone.  For several years I had membership on a private stream in PA.  In fact it is a stream that Schwiebert mentions in nymphs that he fished with Charlie Fox. I twas only a few minutes from my home so I could hit it every night.  The stream just ceased to be a challenge. I found myself driving miles Fishing Creek or Spring Creek because they offered that challenge. 

 

I'm 72 and who knows how long you'll be fishing at that age.  I want to fish hard pressed streams for bigger trout than dry flies will ever raise.  That's why I am exploring new techniques.