Whiting feathers

[brooktrout308 0]

Ok here goes the only Whiting Necks and Saddles I have are Pro grade, we only have one small store and that's all he carries. What I'm wondering is are the higher grades Bronze, Silver and Gold really all that much better for the extra money ?

[prairiedrifter 0]

My experience has been more feathers and slightly longer feathers in the higher grades

[Gene L 0]

Yes, I think they are. But the higher grades have more count but I don't know the difference between "Pro Grade" and silver, since I've never used them. Will the pro grade tie excellent flies that will catch fish? Of course, but in the hands of a pro, the higher grades will l tie great looking flies. I'm far from being a pro and need any advantage I can get so I like the higher grades. An India neck will tie flies that will catch numerous fish, maybe will take a couple of feathers to do so, but while they won't look as great, they work just fine. A little more challenging and true, if that's what you want. Pro grade feathers are WAY superior to the best India necks of the 1970s.

[Dubs 0]

Same genetic chickens, higher graded capes have more feathers and maybe longer feathers, and/or more uniform colors.

I have not felt the need to go all out on the highest grade capes. Barbule density and stem softness "should" be comparable if not equal.

The lower grades tie very nicely, and I do not feel inhibited by using them at all. Gene is right, many tiers have told me today's worst options in hackle are better than the cream of the crop in yesteryear. I'm 30 so I can't confirm haha

[utyer 0]

I am more than twice as old a Dubs, and I can confirm that the genetic hackle we have now is the best stuff I have ever seen. I started tying LONG before there was general availability of genetic hackle like Whiting, Metz, Keogh, and all the others. For my needs, the lowest grades are good enough, for almost every thing. There is a DOWN side to the trend in breeding for super long extra small saddle hackle, and that is the loss of good streamer and woolly bugger saddles. 30 years ago Metz had the finest bugger saddles (I still have a few,) but they are gone now. The Whiting bugger packs are OK, but they are not as good as those old Metz saddles. Living in Florida, I have very little need for dry fly hackle of any kind, but I am always looking for good streamer hackle, and tailing hackle for salt water patterns.

[Gene L 0]

I remember when there was no genertc hackle. Nowadays, it's now outstanding. Even the lower grades.

[Bugsy 0]

Yes, I think they are. But the higher grades have more count but I don't know the difference between "Pro Grade" and silver, since I've never used them. Will the pro grade tie excellent flies that will catch fish? Of course, but in the hands of a pro, the higher grades will l tie great looking flies. I'm far from being a pro and need any advantage I can get so I like the higher grades. An India neck will tie flies that will catch numerous fish, maybe will take a couple of feathers to do so, but while they won't look as great, they work just fine. A little more challenging and true, if that's what you want. Pro grade feathers are WAY superior to the best India necks of the 1970s.

[SilverCreek 0]

Ok here goes the only Whiting Necks and Saddles I have are Pro grade, we only have one small store and that's all he carries. What I'm wondering is are the higher grades Bronze, Silver and Gold really all that much better for the extra money ?

 

If you want my opinion, the answer is no way!!!

 

If you have experience and know what you want, the answer is no. The lower grades have lower feather counts and a less complete distribution of sizes of hackle. However, in my opinion, the extra cost is NOT worth it. For example a gold saddle is $150 and a pro saddle is $50; a Whiting gold cape is $130 and a pro cape is $40. Am I to believe that the gold is worth 3 times more than the pro grade? Am I to believe the gold will tie either a 3X better fly or 3X more flies? No way! And this is before the fact buying the pro grade give you 3 colors and the gold is one color. I can get a pro grade grizzly, coachman brown and a dun to tie Adams, BWOs, EHCs, Griffith's Gnat, March Brown, Brown Drake, etc. What can you tie with a single color of a Gold cape or saddle?

 

I know what I want and I can grade hackle. So I can look at the cape for quality of the sizes of hackle I am going to actually use. I really don't care if the smaller or larger sizes are sparse and the cape has been down graded because it has a poor or incomplete distribution of sizes. Plus the graders cannot spend as much time looking at each cape/saddle as I can and they make mistakes. If you can't grade hackle and they upgrade a poorer cape/saddle - you get taken. If you know how to grade hackle and they downgrade a better cape/saddle, you benefit. So I pick the best of the prograde and decide if it is worth it.

 

BTW, they call it the Pro grade because it is what the fly tying companies use. Some use even a lower grade of hackle. Do you think commercial tiers buy the bronze, silver, or gold capes and saddles when they are getting paid by the fly? Do ya think they are buying the Gold hackle when the Pro grade will tie more flies? The flies that you buy from your fly shop are most likely tied with pro grade or even lower grade hackle. Do they work OK?

[Poopdeck 0]

I can't grade feathers, I don't care what a barb count is nor do I worry about feather distribution. I buy based on cheapness and make do with what I get. Ignorance is bliss because I'm not missing things I don't know about and somehow I still manage to catch fish. Don't sweat the small stuff. Buy the 50 dollar cape and put the other hundred in your 401K. That will make a much more noticeable difference in life.

[Jaydub 0]

My experience with Whiting Pro grade hackle is limited to one cape and on saddle. Comparing them to bronze grade, my impression is that the feathers are slightly shorter and seem to have slightly less barb density. Still very usable and yes better than anything from 30 years ago. I bought the saddle specifically to get a good quantity of size 14 hackle. It filled that need very nicely. The red label Whiting saddles had very few feathers in that size.

[AZWoolybugger 0]

Here is a link as to how Whiting explains it. http://whitingfarms.com/whitings-olympic-grading-system/

 

I agree with Silver, the Pro grade is perfect for most of us.

[Moshup 0]

If you have a finite amount of money to spend on hackle I think I would prefer the cape that is very adequete for my needs and be able to buy 3 capes with varying colors than the one premium cape for the big bucks though they are a beautiful thing to behold. I too am a fly tier reared on chinese necks and I still marvel when tying a dry fly how far hackles have come.

[Crackaig 0]

I use the pro grades all the time. They are more than adequate, I doubt anyone could tell the grade once it is wound as a hackle.

 

Something I learned some time ago, as I have to buy mine mail order, is to specify barb length, not in hook size, but in millimetres. If I say I want a saddle to hackle size 16 dries, for example, the retailer can send me anything. When I complain they are over size, he can just say, "That's what I'd put on a 16." Then there is nothing I can do about it. If I say I want the majority with a barb length between 4 and 6mm, I can put a rule against them, and prove he hasn't sent what I ordered.

 

I would stand with Silver, not worth the extra £££. (And they are around the same price in £ as they are in $. i.e. 1/3 more expensive).

 

Cheers,

C.

[flyty1 0]

I only tie fishing flies and therefore don't need super hackle since most of my dry flies these days are tied as parachutes, I still use Indian rooster hackle for the occasional fly where the color matches what I need - that's about as far from genetic as you can get.

[deaddrifter 0]

Pro Grade is a fantastic value for the money. I've found the range of sizes from a pro-grade cape to be impressive. I don't think you are missing out by not having access locally to the higher grades. You can even get midge pro-grade saddles now.

 

The guys over Fly Fish Food did a hackle comparison that speaks to this.

 

http://www.flyfishfood.com/2014/09/hackle-comparisons.html