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The Hard Way: Poppers N Paint
Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:10 PM
After watching lots of videos and trying most of the techniques used to make poppers ( sheet foam folding, gluing, wraping, punching, flip-flops, carving balsa, etc.) I've just made a big order to J. Stockard for some Wapsi hard foam popper bodies. Now, I'm not saying that someone who's interested in making their own foam poppers should abandon the idea. I'm just saying that as the least mechanically inclined person you've ever met, it's not for me. Not even when spinning and sanding foam on a Dremel could I turn out a decent popper body! It's not foam, it's me.
Then, last night I took some of the Wapsi bodies and broke out the Sharpie's. I've read about how they bleed when coated with Hard-as-Nails and I've experienced it myself, first hand. For a guy who knows he has limitations on what he can do, I sure am picky about the way my poppers look. LOL But the Sharpie coloring? That's something I can do pretty easily. But I know I can't use Hard-as-Nails on them for the sealer/top coat because it makes them look "blurry" when the Sharpie markers bleed.
But what I can't find any information on, among all the info out there ( and on this forum! ) is can I use 30 min. epoxy over the Sharpie colored poppers? I don't think there should be a problem with the epoxy causing the Sharpie to bleed, but I'm not 100% sure. So this extra long post is essentially just to ask: Can I use 30 min. epoxy on Sharpie colored Wapsi hard foam poppers?
Or, better yet - can I not coat them with anything and just re-Sharpie 'em when they fade? Of course, no one wants to buy poppers they have to refinish every trip and I'm hoping to one day sell a few here and there.
Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:30 PM
Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:27 PM
And, yes you can use 30 minute epoxy! Don't use the 5 minute, as it will often set way too fast when coating things like popper bodies and you'll probably end up with an uneven coating or worse! On small fly heads it can be used, as long as you're not trying to coat a lot of them at a time.
There is a difference in epoxies too. I use 60 or 90 minute, and prefer the Devcon brand. I've had the best results with it, and like the longer set times because I'll usually coat large batches of bodies at a time. I also feel the longer set time Devcon does not yellow as easily as shorter set time epoxy. At least that's been my experience with it.
Some guys like to use rod finish epoxies but I've never used any myself. I used some Ace Hardware epoxy once & was not very happy with it. I've also used Locktite brand, which was OK, but I still like the Devcon better.
Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:38 PM
I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and let you know for sure, I guess. I really don't want to give up the detail work I can do with the tip of a Sharpie. I doubt I could get any amount of detail on a small popper with acrylic tube paint and a brush.
Then again, I've had alot of thoughts about just buying cheap, glittery nail polish and forgetting the detail work. I'm sure the fish won't care that I put 20 minutes into hand-coloring each one! LOL
There are so many different ways of getting color on a popper body, it's almost like trying to figure out where to fish on a new river! Thanks again for the help, guys!
Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:04 AM
First light coat - minor running of one color on a three-colored popper body.
Waited an hour, second coat - ugly, runny colored popper body, Batman. All the colors ran all over each other, just like they did with the Hard-As-Nails the night before. RATS!
So, no multi-colored poppers with that method.
HOWEVER, I think if I just do single colors (green, yellow, red) with the Sharpie and then spray em with the poly sealer, they'll look OK. How will they hold up? Not sure.
Sadly, my experiments have come to an end it seems. Last night I ordered a fly turner device from J. Stockard and some 30 min. epoxy from Amazon. ( Would you believe no one in a town of 40,000 people had 30 min. epoxy - not even Lowe's or Home Depot!?!?! )
So I guess I should have known from the beginning - if you could do it (paint hard foam poppers and seal 'em) another way succesfully ( without using epoxy and long drying times), that's how people would do it! Of course, I'm gonna finish and fish with that ugly one I made with the spray poly. I don't think the fish will mind.
Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:22 AM
sharpie has a product that is a water based paint marker. maybe that would be best suited for what you are trying to do.
i use acrylic paints from michaels craft store and after i'm done painting them, i overcoat with a uv cured resin. no waiting for epoxy to dry, no need for a drying wheel, no mixing uneven amounts of resin or hardener etc.
The fish care less than we do!
Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:39 AM
I've never found the Lowe's and Home Depot stores in my area to carry 30 minute epoxy on the several occasions I've looked. The
closest thing I found on their web sites is a marine epoxy that one review said doesn't dry clear. Once in a while I've found the 30
minute epoxy at Walmart. Hardware stores such as Ace have been my most consistent local sources.
Like tidewaterfly I go with Devcon. But I freely admit I've not tried any of the other brands.
Water based acrylic craft paint works well with epoxy and the polyurethanes I've used. All you really need to have a nice looking
popper to catch fish is one color on the body and some eyes and you are good to go. A friend of mine only glues the bodies to
the hook and ties materials behind the head with no painting or clear coating whatsoever and he catches fish. Mostly the painting
is to satisfy your arts and crafts side.
Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:27 AM
it to dry for about ten minutes then apply the epoxy. I prefer five minute because I have used it for years and have learned how to overcome drip lines and uneven applications. Modern finishes have virtually made my type of epoxy obsolete but not cost effective if you "hard finish" as many flies as I go through. I will try to singlehandedly keep the Z Poxy company alive. If my poppers and crease flies actually could survive a season of stripers I suspect this ancient pelican would eventually join the 21st century and
get a UV finish product.
Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:02 AM
Those UV poppers look amazing. Unfortunately, if I spent that kind of money my wife could kill me. I'm kinda surprised she didn't raise the roof over the turner to be honest with ya.
I'll be a happy guy if I can just paint these dern bugs with markers and epoxy 'em up. I'm no good with a brush, despite being an art major in college. Of course, had I graduated.......?
Thanks again so much.
Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:25 AM
go for what you have or can afford
The fish care less than we do!
Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:24 PM
OK, news from the Popper front (and I hope you all are getting quite the chuckle over me going the long way around this whole thing. ) I bought a turner, tracked down some 30 min. epoxy, coated my Sharpie colored creations and the ink still ran. Not nearly as much as with the Hard-as-Nails, but it did run a bit. It also sucked (somehow)some of the white popper body color back up to the surface (or something like that) because a solid green popper is now a white and green popper. same with the yellow and orange.
They don't look bad. I'll fish with 'em of course....but I guess I am going to have to give in and go with the acrylic paint after all.
One last question and I'll (hopefully) be done with the Popper Inquisition!
Should I coat them with something else ( now with the Hard-as-Nails???) after they're finished turning on the dryer? They still seem sticky to me and I know I used the exact same amount of part A and part B.
It would be supremely ironic to have to coat them with Hard-As-Nails. LOL
Thanks for all your help everyone! I really, really appreciate it.
PS - looking for what to coat them with over the epoxy(if that's what you do) I'm running across tons of videos showing people using 5 min. epoxy. That stuff will yellow and get brittle fast, right? Or did I just pay $13.00 plus shipping for nuthin'?
Posted 03 March 2012 - 06:50 PM
run a color of sharpie on some piece of extra material. After it is dried, try the Hard as Nails and see if
as I expect it also runs. If it does run and you still want to clear coat your poppers, I'd give serious
consideration to abandoning the Sharpie ink and try some other based paint such as the water based
acrylic flytire suggested. I know it works with 30 minute epoxy, polyurethane, and nail polish.
Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:14 PM
Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:45 PM
Then, I bought some Balsa and Basswood and used a Dremel I purchased to carve out some bodies and paint and coat them with 2 ton 30min epoxy.
The results were mixed, and it ended up being very time consuming. I ended up finding it difficult to create identical sized poppers using wood, and therefore ended up purchasing a whole bunch of hard foam ones in different sizes. I have a huge collection of Copic water-proof markers that have yet to be used and can't wait for my order to arrive. Should be today or tomorrow at latest.
I will post the fruits of my labor soon.