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The Hard Way: Poppers N Paint


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34 replies to this topic

#16 oatka

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

I've done a bunch with Copic markers, and I use Clear Cure Goo to cover them....BUT, if the goo isn't completely covering the Copic markers, the Sally Hansens I use next (to get rid of the remaining tack from the goo) will find it's way into the marker and destroy the paint job. I know CCG has other goos that work differently than the 2 versions I have, so one might work without a need for Sallys. I have seen other popper guys use the CCG Hydro. That's my next purchase.

Good luck Owl! Either way, just fish what you have, I've seen worse looking flies catch fish than some bleeding marker popper. That said, don't tell anyone that....because I too would like to sell some poppers!

#17 Kirk Dietrich

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:44 PM

Have you tried hitting it with some clear Artist's Fixative? I haven't tried it but there would be no brush to smear the marker just a mist. Maybe a few light mists to seal the marker and then cover with clear coat?

Kirk
Every now and then, I'll make a video, wish I could find time to do more; here is the link:
http://www.youtube.c...et?feature=mhee

I've got a few folders with photos of flies, these get more updates than my videos:
http://s136.photobuc...rofile/kirkdiet

https://picasaweb.go...rich?feat=email

#18 flytire

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:52 AM

i have tried the copic markers, followed by a brushed on coat of clear acrylic paint sealer, then a coating of uv resin and an overcoat of sallys. i'm not convinced its the best system for painting poppers (some may have better results than i did). i'm not sure if copic markers are water based, (i dont think so) but being water based might make a better marker for this type of application

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The fish care less than we do!


#19 Owl Jones

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:29 AM

Right on the nail polish. It will run the Sharpie's. Again, what I'm trying to avoid is a paint brush here. I'm not going to be able to get the detail I want with a brush. Therefore, the marker use - however, I can't afford those high dollar $7 a pop markers.

I'm learning alot as I go and over the weekend, I think we've found a solution. I'm going to be doing some durability testing this week to make sure our new base coat doesn't interfere with the epoxy's properties. They look good right now, but I'm going to bang 'em off some rocks and see what happens. Also, we'll put a few out in the sun for a few weeks to make sure there's no adverse effects in that regard.

I think the problem is solved though, and all because my wife saw something in a store and said "how about this junk?" :) I'd tell you what we used as a base coat to keep the colors from running, but you probably wouldn't believe me anyway. :)

Here's a pic of a few of the first ones I've created....

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The photos don't really do 'em justice.

Thanks for all the help again guys. You've made it much less frustrating, knowing that I'm not going this alone. I hope to create a new market for poppers as art very soon. I mean, if a guy can draw on a foam cup and sell 'em for hundreds....
You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

#20 Owl Jones

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

....and just when you think it's all figured out, problem #345.2 arises! LOL I'm water and abuse testing these things this week to make sure there's no nasty reaction. I've got one of these chipped to the foam to see if anything happens to the base coat if it gets water on it. But all I get are poppers staring at the sun - face up! Even using a hook that to me looks way too small, they look straight up. Clearly there's something I'm missing here.....

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Can this really be the size hook I need? It looks too small to me. (Even with this hook, the thing points straight skyward. Someone tell me where I'm being stupid here, please...

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You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

#21 Owl Jones

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:43 AM

Have you tried hitting it with some clear Artist's Fixative? I haven't tried it but there would be no brush to smear the marker just a mist. Maybe a few light mists to seal the marker and then cover with clear coat?

Kirk



I've not tried that. If this doesn't fix it, we'll try that next. ;) Thank Kirk~!
You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

#22 Stippled Popper

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:47 PM

A large number of hard foam poppers with hooks and nothing else on them are going to point "cup up".
I find the problem isn't as bad on #8 and smaller bodies. How much the cup angles up depends to a
large degree on how far the hook shank and bend extends past the end of the body and the flotation
properties of the materials tied behind the head and how quickly those materials become soaked.

It isn't all bad. When stripped, the popper will straighten out. When at rest it will return to pointing up.
In some ways this imitates an animal in distress..

#23 Owl Jones

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

Thanks for the help/info. I guess I'm just too used to seeing them in a vise rather that in the water. I've never seen a store-bought popper sit "face up" like that. I'll put 'em through their paces I guess and see if the tail-down posture still gets strikes. I wouldn't want to be providing worthless poppers to anyone - that's all....

I suppose I could wind sheet foam around the shank before wrapping the hackle. Hmmm....back to the drawing board I guess.
You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

#24 Stippled Popper

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:56 PM

The foam wrapped behind the popper head might look a bit odd. But it could be
largely obscured by strategic placement of something like marabou all around.

#25 Owl Jones

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

The foam wrapped behind the popper head might look a bit odd. But it could be
largely obscured by strategic placement of something like marabou all around.


I tried it on one that I already had tied with the smaller hook. It did help quite a bit. Surely I can't be the only person to have had this happen with these pre-made heads...
You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.

#26 oatka

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

Hmmm...I've never put a popper in the water without a line attached. My guess is that the line will sort of help settle it out. However, like Stippled said, it probably doesn't matter. I figure any movement after YOU stop the popper is bonus. So if it rocks back on it's butt, that's good movement and might get a fish.

Those poppers are great looking!

#27 Kirk Dietrich

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

.......I get are poppers staring at the sun - face up! Even using a hook that to me looks way too small, they look straight up. Clearly there's something I'm missing here.....


Owl, first off, a popper staring at the sun is fine. It should pop with minimal forward motion. I wouldn't worry though, aren't you going to sell those as $100 pieces of art? Nobody's gonna fish them anyway. :rolleyes: Joking, they are little works of art, I like them a lot.
But back to fishing them. I think those heads were designed for the newer Mustad hook, it is a shorter shanked hook with only a single kink in it. That being said, you shouldn't use the smaller hook in your demo picture, you'll have no room to tie a tail on and be lucky to hook a fish.
You may want to try something like Mustad's 3366 or their Stinger hook that is equivalent to the Gamakatsu B10S. Also, you may want to try sanding a little material off the bottom of the head like Flytire. Speaking of Flytire, look at his pictures again, he is using the same heads from WAPSI as you are, notice the hook, I think that he is using the hooks that come with the heads. Now, maybe you could ask Flytire to float his in a cup to see if his are looking up at the sun.
You could also, drill a hole in the face and come out the back which would remove some floatation up front. To counter the extra floatation, you could tie a little strip of lead wire to the front half of the hook.

Kirk
Every now and then, I'll make a video, wish I could find time to do more; here is the link:
http://www.youtube.c...et?feature=mhee

I've got a few folders with photos of flies, these get more updates than my videos:
http://s136.photobuc...rofile/kirkdiet

https://picasaweb.go...rich?feat=email

#28 iaflyfisher

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

I posted here some time back on a Copic Air Brush System topic that I use Minwax Polycrylic as a coating on my Wapsi hard foam poppers.
Being water based it will not dissolve or run any dried paint that you have on a popper. The Copic ABS uses alcohol based paint that dries very quickly, much like Sharpies which is also solvent based (not sure what but it shouldn't matter once it is dry) A coat or two will protect the popper very well.

Search this site for polycrylic and you can see my poppers along good ideas people have posted.

iaflyfisher
iaflyfisher

#29 Stippled Popper

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:04 PM

Another thought was brought to mind by Kirk Dietrich's comments. Turn the popper around and turn it into
a slider. This increases the amount of flotation at the rear of the popper body. It shouldn't point "up" even
with no floating materials tied into the tail since the center of floatation is basically in the middle. If you take
a look at the Deke Meyer book Hot Bass Flies . . . Patterns & Tactics from the Experts(paper back), on page
19 there is a picture of a Spirit River Pro-Tec Popper with a much larger hook which extends much farther to
the rear than the Mustad CK52S Wapsi sells with their TCS hard foam poppers do. On page 37 there is a
picture of the same popper as a slider. These are what I used before I started tying my own and are the same
or equivalent to the popper bodies Wapsi sells. They have deer hair tied in behind the popper body and both
float more or less level.

#30 Owl Jones

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:12 PM

Thanks for all the continued help, guys - and the kind words about the detail on 'em. I turned to tying alot of the small pencil poppers because I didn't have the star-gazer problems with those. Day before yesterday I landed over 20 smaller bass and one nice one on a baby bass pattern pencil popper. I'm sure I'll figure out the problem on the traditional ones - for now the foam wrapped on the hook is hidden, easy to apply and makes it float like I think it should. I just don't want to sell some to an unsuspecting fisherman and have them call back to say "them poppers don't float right." ( I'm with you guys - I doubt the bass will care though...)

Anyhoot, I'll check out those hooks and the other info and again, I really appreciate the help on this!

OH PS - I'm not sure then what I did wrong with the poly stuff - but I tried it and it ran the perm. markers just like Hard-as-Nails did for me. Anyway, I've got a system now and a top-secret base coat that is working great so I'll stick with the epoxy I guess. I'll have some more photos soon - got another batch underway.
You can google me if you like, but don't say I didn't warn ya.