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wing placement question


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10 replies to this topic

#1 DarrellP

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 11:40 AM

How do you decide whether to put the wing in front of or behind wound hackle on a wet fly? I had read somewhere that one way was from the trout flYing tradition and one from the Salmon tying tradition. Cannot remember, and there seems to be a lot of variation on published flies. Steelhead flies are for sea run Rainbows that get a lot of Salmon flies thrown at them, so that is confusing. I personally like the wings tied in front. Does anyone know what is traditional?
"Calling fishing a hobby is like calling brain surgery a job." John Geirach

#2 utyer

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 12:27 PM

Tradition depends on how far back you search.  There are wet flies tied back in 1400s that had NO hackle at all, the wings were in most were tied on first before the body and rib.  They were then folded back over the body.  

 

Hackle only collars were also common 600 years ago.  Most of the resources I have (Alfred Ronalds, J Edson Leonard, Ray Bergman, and a few others,)show the hackle tied on first and the wing last.   These days, the hackles are in many cases tied in first, but There are some flies where the hackle is tied in and wrapped in front of the wings.  No real rime or reason just the way different tiers decided to do it.

 

Since setting the wing is often the most problem, it makes sense to put it on last.  Since there are no "rules," you can use any method that works for you.  


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#3 tjm

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 12:28 PM

Typically my wets are either hackled or winged, I can't recall using both except on Hornberg and they never worked right for me as a wet, ended using them as hoppers.

> the winged wets often have beards if that counts as hackle

Yesterday on another thread; http://www.flytyingf...945#entry734364



#4 flytire

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 01:17 PM

Darrell

What type of fly are you tying?

Duck quill? Hairwing?

Post a foto

On hairwing salmon/steelhead flies the wing can be tied either behind or ahead of the hackles collar. The recipe usually gives the sequence

Most fishermen use the double haul to throw their casting mistakes further - Lefty Kreh


#5 DarrellP

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 05:45 AM

I have had difficulty posting photos. This is from my phone, sorry. My wings are maybe a bit long?

Attached Thumbnails

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"Calling fishing a hobby is like calling brain surgery a job." John Geirach

#6 Crackaig

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 06:40 AM

Now we know what you are tying it is easier to comment. Those flies are Salmon/steel head flies. The problem is some are tied one way, some t'other. Generally if you tie the wing on before the hackle, winding a full collar hackle it is Irish style; but there are exceptions. The Aly's Shrimp Cascade family of flies are most defiantly Scottish, yet have a full hackle.

To be practical, if you are tying a known pattern tie it the way the originator intended. At least to my mind, a pattern should be designed. It should solve a problem that other flies, as far as the originator knows, don't solve. Therefor, you should tie as intended, at least as regards hackle. If you make a change, it should be deliberate and you should have a reason.

If you are tying without a pattern in mind, then do what you think looks best. It will give you more confidence.

Total historic accuracy is generally for framing.

 

The wings on your flies the wings are not overly. On hair wing flies like yours, I like to imagine putting the point f a pair of compasses on the hook shank immediately behind the eye, Extend the other leg until it touches the tip of the tail, then strike an ark upwards. I like the tip of the wings to lie about along that ark. No need to actually do this it is just a way to think about it. Yours are around that length and perfectly acceptable to my eye.

Using the camera on your phone is not ideal. If you are not into photography there is no need to spend around $3000 on a really good kit, there are things you can do. It looks like you are closer to the flies than your camera is capable of focusing. Move back a little them use the zoom to make the fly fill the screen. Also try standing behind your chair and resting your forearms on the chair back while you take the shot. Doing this, combined with using your zoom feature, will give you a view similar to the tiers view, which is ideal.

 

I hope there is some help there,
Cheers,

C.


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#7 spiralspey

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 11:02 AM

I tie my steelhead flies whatever way I think looks good, the steelhead could care less. I personally like a wrap or two of hackle covering the butt end of the wing on my hair wings because I can then make a very small and tidy head, which I think looks good.

#8 Jaydub

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 11:30 AM

On most hairwing Steelhead flies, I tie the hackle in first, then the wing. Not that there is anything wrong with the other way. One way to get a smaller head, on a hair wing fly, is to tie in half of the wing, wrap the hackle, then tie in the other half of the wing.



#9 DarrellP

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 09:29 PM

Thanks for yourcomments
"Calling fishing a hobby is like calling brain surgery a job." John Geirach

#10 Flicted

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:50 PM

Fish don't care where the hackle is placed.  So further break down the answer.  If it's for aesthetics, tie them in the way you like to see them.  If you're worried about function, there may be subtle differences in how it rides in the water.  If it's a particular pattern and you are concerned with tying it "correctly", then use whatever the pattern calls for.

 

My preference for most wet flies is a beard instead of a wrapped hackle. I like the looks of them unused and although I've never interviewed a trout, I personally like the profile they give when wet.



#11 phg

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 07:56 PM

If you check the plates in Ray Bergman's "Trout", almost all the wet flies are tied with beards.  Only a handful have collars.  The real argument is whether it's OK to use a "false beard", or if it should be wound around the hook and pulled under to form a beard.

 

My mentor, from whom I learned to tie winged wets, back in the '50's, always used, what are now called "false beards."  This technique allows you to use hackles that are, technically, too long on any fly.  The fact is, the hackles we had back then didn't allow you to be too fussy.  You used what you had, and nobody looked down their noses at you for doing so.

 

That said, I use beards on almost all my winged wets.