17 replies to this topic

[Mark Knapp]

I got a lot of stuff from an estate sale and I'm sorting through it. There's some really neat stuff, like an old Herters Vise. There's also some stuff that makes me laugh.

 

Does anybody remember these? I could use them for wings or tails, but It says they are dry fly hackles. They are an inch long. Were they intended to be used for hackles?

 

Look at these hooks, they don't have eyes, just the flattened part where the eye would be. Does anybody know what they are for? What are they called? What could I use them for? I got a bunch of them from size 2 to 16.

 

Thanks

[flytire]

spade eye hook

 

A spade end is flattened at the end, causing a larger surface area looking like a spade. More typically designed on small sized hooks/fly hooks for smaller sized fish, to reduce weight for easier mimicking of lifelike prey actions on flies & sabiki rigs. Firm & tightly snelled knot to prevent line slipping over the spade end. 

 

 

Does anybody remember these? I could use them for wings or tails, but It says they are dry fly hackles. They are an inch long. Were they intended to be used for hackles? 

 

just a guess but they probably could be used for hackles, wings or even hackle tip tails

[Mark Knapp]

Thanks Norm

[jdowney]

I remember hackles like that.  I used to buy Asian capes instead, but it was the same quality of feather.  When I was learning to tie in the 1980's you could find some nice Metz capes, but they were well out of my range.  There was another outfit that I cant' remember the name of now but I would see around the fly shops.  I bought materials at the local hardware store usually, and it was all Universal Vise stuff.  If I took the bus a couple towns over I could go to a real fly shop.

[tjm]

Mark, yes I remember those. Universal Vice was about the only source of tying stuff in RI in the '70s. I guess Herter's had a catalog/mail order supply, but I never heard of it. I still have some Universal materials bought in the early '80s or late '70s. 

The hackle were typical of the times, I guess, I believe they were selected from Indian cock necks. Three feathers to a fly if memory serves. Only local source was a Bait Shop and after the first few flies, Dick talked me into buying a few necks so that I could chose my own feathers. Some of those necks had many colors of hackle. 

If memory serves the modern hackle started showing up in shops ~1980 and even it would be classed as "craft feathers" today.

 

I never used any of the spade hooks, saw some on snelled flies an acquaintance used. I believe they are more common in UK and are the tradition in tenkara, but I could be wrong.

[Mark Knapp]

T, Interesting, thanks. I think I'm going to try some snelled flies. Now that you guys mentioned it, I think I do remember seeing some snelled flies somewhere.I never checked to see if there was an eye there.

[tjm]

As you can tell the feathers aren't for small hooks and I recall that in my area all the flies #16 and smaller were chosen as wets of some variety, often stripping fibers and using them loose  as beards and slant wings.

Those feathers are probably right for a 12-10, again iirc. The barbs might actually be stiffer than some modern hackle but only about half as many barbs per inch of stem. The dyed feathers seemed to have more brittle stems, as though the dye process hardened them.

[Poopdeck]

T, Interesting, thanks. I think I'm going to try some snelled flies. Now that you guys mentioned it, I think I do remember seeing some snelled flies somewhere.I never checked to see if there was an eye there.

This is a fly fishing violation! It's not a snell knot it's a whip finish. Dang bait chuckers.

[Mark Knapp]

tjm, yes I could tell the fibers were too long for small flies.

 

Dang it poopdeck, how many demerits does that violation carry.

 

As I understand it though, I took it to mean that you tied the leader on with a snell and then tied the fly. Then I wondered why you wouldn't just tie the leader into the fly in the very first step with a bunch of wraps, like you would a trailing hook or one of those fancy salmon hooks with no eye (where you tie in the cat gut). Put some glue on there and then tie the fly. Seems the latter would be best, no?

[flytire]

 

cat gut eye

 

 

(internet photos)

[utyer]

I remember Herters very well, in fact, my first 4 or 5 orders of fly tying supplies were to Herters through their mail order catalog.  My dad had an old catalog and a box of materials, tools and a few hooks.  In 1955, I tried duplicating some of the flies in the catalog, and my dad let me look at the fly tying section in his old Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia.    That's how I learned to tie.  When we moved to Utah in 57, we lost the materials, but the vise and tools survived and are still being used today.  

 

I remember buying a quarter of a deer skin once from Herters, and I was buying hooks for less than $3.00 a hundred.  Before the internet, Herters, and Orvis were the only National mail orders that I knew of.  The supplies in the local shops in Salt Lake City, were all from Universal, and by today's standards pretty poor quality.  

[Mark Knapp]

Thanks Norm, I think I will have to tie me some. Not like those though, just regular flies. I might need a while before I can tie those purty ones.

 

utyer, Herters was just going out of business in the early 80's when I first moved the Minn. and started pursuing the outdoor sports like some kind of crazy man. They had everything, kind of like Cabelas today, or Bass Pro shops, or Sportsmans Warehouse. Man we got it good these days.

[DFoster]

Oliver Edwards does a pretty fair explanation of the way it was before hooks had eyes here-

 

[vicrider]

If you use some of those spade hooks I think you're going to find you won't be able to barbless them. I had some like and trying to pinch the barb would break the hook about every time. I think some used to file or dremel the barb off but pinching just didn't work. Too hard a steel.

 

Herter's was my favorite catalog growing up, right up there with sections of the Sears and Monky Wards catalogs.

[Mark Knapp]

DF, that's an awesome video, I love stuff like that. Thanks

 

vic, some good info. I will keep that in mind. I generally don't smoosh the barb until I'm in the field because I don't no if I'm fishing for the pan or catch and release, or if I'm fishing for an IGFA record. I'd really hate to break a hook after I've already tied the fly. Thanks