Swaps, What makes them good or bad?

[shoebop 0]

The discussion (postings) here of late has been slow so I thought I'd introduce a topic to kick around.

 

Do you join in swaps? Why? What makes them a good experience for you? What makes them a bad experience for you? Is there something that bugs you about the swaps you've been involved with? Have you ever been a swapmeister? Do you enjoy doing that? Is there anything you would change about the swap experience? What do you do with your swapped flies?

 

This topic is open to just about anything related to swapping...except one thing. We all agree that having a swapmeister who absconds with everyone's flies is a bad thing and sours everyone's experience so let's not flog that horse too much. We saw this unfold here recently and the bile it produced was equally unpleasant and I don't want to resurrect that level of emotion again.

 

Share you good experiences and the things that bug you about the swapping experience

[Piker20 0]

I enjoy the variation you receive from a given theme. I recently hosted a caenis swap and you wonder how much variety that can produce but the flies were all different and provide a good fly box.

I only wish more of the non USA/Canada folk would take part as flies from UK and Europe are often different.

[Henrik Thomsen (DK) 0]

I enjoy being in swaps, mostly because then I need to tie something. Kind of looses to few flies to justify my tying as a way of resupply my boxes. That could be because of too little fishing time spent?

 

A little sour bile is there any way. Some times it doesn't really look for me as a real effort was put into the flies I recieve. Sometimes it looks more like - jobs done, now I get flies from them other tiers....

I would really like if more self criticism was applied before sending in flies. For a swap with 12 flies, I normally re-tie at least a couple before I'm satisfied.

 

Finally, think I would prefer swaps to be more educational. How about we started commenting each other's flies helping all of us to improve? I would really like that.

 

And big THANK YOU to all swap meisters

 

Henrik

[vicrider 0]

Okay, since I've been hosting quite a few swaps both here and in a couple of other places I can agree with Henrik's assessment of quality at times but I personally choose to believe each tyer is doing the job to the best of his ability. I know I am and also that my ability is well below several posters on the board. One example is poppers and surface bugs. I will not do another one of these until I become much better since the quality I received was so far past my present ability on them.

 

When joining a swap ( I'm ready for someone to fire up one or two ) I research the guidelines and try to do something within my abilities that will be used and not just set aside. I know my efforts have improved to the point I wish I could call back some of the my earlier attempts and do a redo. Like Henrik, the amount of ties and tries I do to complete a set is always more than the quantity called for. Because I have invested in a huge amount of material and have more time on my hands than most, and am limited in what I can do outside anymore, I often try to do an extra if I can, and try to do something the SM would enjoy.

 

NOW, as an SM, I do wish people would read the front page of instructions a few more times. If all the rules and guidelines are followed thru on, the swap sorting on our end can go a lot easier on us. Something not in there and my suggestion for the participants would be to put both their real names and their board aliases on the Sucrets box or whatever they use. When we have a dozen boxes of a dozen flies and a dozen return envelopes to take care of anything that makes it quicker and easier for us is appreciated. Including money for postage or return envelope is okay if only a few do it but it does make more trouble for us. Overseas tiers must do something along this line but that's something I have no problem with since it's great to have them in and a little extra time at PO is not a problem for me.

 

I just put something on another thread about being late. As SM or participant I do not find it a great problem since things come up in our lives we cannot always forsee. The big thing is communication. Let the SM know so others know. If it's necessary to drop out let someone know ASAP and I personally don't think this is a reason to report or ban a person from swaps if notification and the rare dropout is necessary. If it's a person's first swap or he doesn't let anyone know, then I think it may be good to not have participate again and cause more problems. We have many on the forum since I've been here that have been regulars and they definitely should be given a pass if unusual circumstances. Then there are a few like me who have given a spot to someone else who wants in and let a newcomer get his feet wet in a swap. It's a good way to increase participation IMO.

 

So, I ramble on with more than you asked for but like I said, I have more time on my hands than most and these swaps help keep my mind active in the fishin' game even tho my water time is so limited.

 

Thanx for all who host swaps and join in to the fun, Nick...AKA Vicrider ( and riding my Vic is something else I had to give up )

[flytire 0]

Do you join in swaps?

 

Yes

 

Why?

 

To see how others tie flies

 

What makes them a good experience for you?

 

When all tyers are punctual and the swapmeister adheres to his own rules

 

What makes them a bad experience for you?

 

Lazy swapmeisters!

 

Swapmeisters who don't communicate with swappers

 

Lazy swappers who procrastinate tying and sending in their flies

 

International swaps. I just don't want to deal with the paperwork and currency exchanges

 

Is there something that bugs you about the swaps you've been involved with?

 

Yes. Swappers who don't read the rules the swapmeister has laid out

 

I also hate getting dry flies all matted down by putting them in a zip lock bag. Time to just throw them out

 

Have you ever been a swapmeister?

 

Yes

 

Do you enjoy doing that?

 

Yes somewhat. it is a chore to get it all sorted out

 

Is there anything you would change about the swap experience?

 

Not allowing the chronic procrastinators in the swap

 

What do you do with your swapped flies?

 

I fish most of them. Some are extraordinary and go in a fly box. Some get thrown out

[Chase Creek 0]

Interesting topic.

 

I think I've been involved in 60+ swaps now. Here and a few on another board.That certainly doesn't make me an expert of any kind. BUT -

 

I enjoy them when I get to try something new, and see other interpretations of a pattern.

 

I find a swap to be more valuable when the recipe for the flies received are included. Most of the flies received don't include anything except who tied them. The recipe could be put on the tag, or just added as a post in the thread.This might be a request added by the SM.

 

Communication in the thread from the SM is very important, even if it's just a reminder to swappers who have not sent in their flies that time is running short. Also, it's great when a SM acknowledges the receipt of a swapper's flies. (I think most do)

 

Irks me when a swapper does not send in his flies, and doesn't say anything. I realize that life sometimes gets in the way, but common courtesy should govern.

 

I fish a lot of the swap flies, and keep the rest in the tin they got sent back in, still attached to the tags. I have a few actually displayed in a frame with the tag still attached.

 

A while (quite a while) back, we had SM's opening swaps to as many as 20 swappers. I did raise a flag on that. My thought was the swaps were to encourage newer tiers to participate and gain experience. Tying 20 flies of the same pattern might intimidate some new tiers, so I thought it should be kept down to a dozen. If there was an overwhelming number of folks wanting to sign up, then the swap could be split into 2 swaps.

 

All in all, I've never really had a bad experience with a swap - my flies have always arrived safely at the SM, and I have always received the swap flies back in good time.

[Cannonx4 0]

I have only gotten to participate in two swaps so far. To start with I felt my tying couldn't compare to the other tiers, so I tied multiple flys and then razored them back off. Probably took me 30 trys before I got a dozen that I thought were worthy to be swapped. I look forward to swapping again, it really made me work and pay attention to what I was doing to try to get the best set of flys that I could tie. I have never tied a dozen of one kind before moving on to a different one. I learned quick that MAKES you a better tier, trying to get 12 that all look the same.

 

I never have been a SM, though I could see trying it one day. I know they have a aggravating job trying to keep up with everything.

 

As of right now I have all my flies tied up and mailed off, ready to do another.

[netabrookie 0]

This is a very interesting topic Shoebop. I am completely addicted to swapping and I am like a kid at Christmas checking the mailbox each evening when I am expecting some. I think it is a way for many of us to learn different patterns and techniques and I find some very challenging. I have only hosted a couple so far and have to agree that it would be nice if the swapper would include their name on the forum and their real name on the box. I have just used sticky notes on the ones without both names to ease in sorting but that can turn into a bit of a pain in the rear. I think that if you are going to be late for one reason or another then you should communicate with everyone, especially the SM, and offer the reason why. I think that swappers should stop and think about what they are about to get involved in before they say "I'm in" and then click the mouse on the post thingy. If you are too busy and are more than likely going to be late and hold up everyone else then don't click the mouse. If you aren't sure if you can handle the pattern or topic being offered that isn't a reason to not join but a reason to join because it is a learning experience and just about anyone on here will help out and answer a question or two to help you through the swap. I think the return postage should be a subject that goes without saying but it doesn't always work that way. I am not going to send flies to someone that I only know through this plastic box and then expect them to pay out of their own pocket to send them back to me. I think a self addressed envelope should ALWAYS be included because I don't like to cut and tape labels and I wouldn't expect someone to want to do that for me either. I like a SM that updates in a timely manner so that I don't worry my head off wondering if the flies have arrived yet. I like the idea of the recipe being included but for me I would rather it be in a post than one on the toe tag. I have ran out of shadow boxes and now have quite a few flies in containers in a box waiting to be placed in shadow boxes and the large toe tags are a problem for me but that is just my problem I guess. There is one wall in my home that is filling up with shadow boxes of flies from swaps and so far I have never fished one, but it has been very tempting with some of them because I know they are real fish getters. Every time that I come across a shadow box in a department store or a thrift store I snatch it up and head home so that I can see what swap is going to be added to the wall of flies.

I have only had a few issues that sort of got under my skin a little but nothing in life is perfect so I try to let the good out weigh the bad. Swapping with folks all over the country or all over the world is something that I enjoy very much and something that I hope to do until I get too old and grumpy to continue with or until nature turns off that switch that controls all of our lives. There has been a few swaps where I considered my flies good enough to send out and there has been some swaps that I tried very hard with but I know my flies didn't come close to the quality that I received in return but I have tried to learn and get better with each attempt.

As I said before Shoebop, this is a very good topic but I didn't mean to get carried away and ramble on so much.....

[Li'lDave 0]

Vicrider, agree... No more popper / surface fly swaps for me. My skills were definitely left wanting.

 

Flytire.. Agree in part with your comments about international swappers... But speaking for myself I ty very hard to make sure I have my ties with the SM well before time, usually with a few extras and also hopefully with enough cash (or prior arrangement has been made with same SM).

 

My biggest hate is simply that I hate waiting... and because I am in Oz.. I have to wait quite a bit.. mainly for my ties to get to you rather than the other way though...

 

The main reason I swap is to look at techniques used by others, and to develop my skills.. In that regard I think the products I swap improves each time...

 

I tie flies to fish.. and I fish with as many of the flies I receive in the swaps too.

 

My biggest weekness is the smaller trout flies.. although I enjoy tieing them because of the techniques they teach me for my larger saltwater flies. in saying that, I haven't been rejected from a swap yet because of my (in)ability....

 

Have been Swap meister.. and find it to be difficult.. but rewarding... of course the tough part is the waiting... a lot can go wrong with international post.

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

I second everything that Shoebop says, well spoken sir. I must admit that i find myself staying away from the hair spinning/popper swaps or swaps that i dont feel that i could do an adequate job at.

 

As for international swappers i havent had a bad experience with anyone that has been in any of my swaps and have received quality flies from all of them, its a shame that a lot of the overseas swapmeisters swap dont fill because those guys have skills.

 

The only thing about swapping that has ever bothered me is when i had 2 no shows from 1 of my swaps.

 

Now speaking of Swaps whos hosting the next 1, we are closing on a house at the end of the month and after that once i get settled in i plan on hosting a swap similar to the Fly Tyer Magazine swap except for it will be based on patterns from the Essential Saltwater Flies Book or 1 of Drew Chicones books.

[shoebop 0]

I'm glad that some have mentioned late swappers as one of the negatives in the swapping experience. I too am like a kid at Christmas time. I can't wait 'til the flies show up in the mailbox. I get out my jeweler's magnifiers and look over each and every fly as soon as they arrive. I think that we are mostly a kindly group and don't wish to appear like SOBs and call-out the offenders (that's as it should be). No need to be rude. But I also think that some are taking advantage of our affability and procrastinating. So much so, that it has become the rule rather than the exception to have as many as half of the swappers be late in getting their flies in on time. That many people cannot have good reason to be late. It is routine to receive flies more than a month and sometimes two after the swap due date. I could go on but...'nuf said.

 

I fully expect to see some flies that are not "quality ties" the effort of someone who is still early in the learning process. I am fine with that actually. My goal is tie the best fly in the group. That's a tall order most times but it is a goal nonetheless. But sometimes, it seems as though not enough effort or thought went into the process. I presume that it was probably the result of procrastination again. Punching out a minimal effort at the last minute...or later just to get them in the mail.

 

This year, I started to keep all my swap flies in a separate box with their tags attached. A separate compartment for every swap. I want to keep a record of all those flies and I can reference them whenever I want. If I really like a fly, I will make some more like it to fish with. ( but sometimes I take one to fish with anyways)

 

I have never hosted a swap although I have given it some thought and maybe I will someday. I have nothing but admiration for those that do. You are the best! Those that abuse this honor...you are the worst!

 

In spite of my above mentioned negatives, I still love to swap! As long as the negatives don't start to outweigh the positives. Everyone deserves my best effort. That means getting them in on time and using the best (right) materials and my best skills. If you don't feel the same, then you shouldn't swap. Plain and simple!

[DavidR 0]

Interesting topic - for me the beauty of swaps is partially to test oneself and partially improve ones skills.

 

There have been swaps were I was glad the only person that saw all 12 of my flies was the SM, cause for some reason the pattern I elected to tie just kicked my butt.

 

I'll also admit that on 1 or 2 occasions if life came at me a little faster that expected rather than let a swap down I have cranked out the flies I committed to do which may have left them looking a little sub-par rather than let the other swappers down. But the flies are not so sub-par that they won't catch fish. I suspect this happens to most if not all at some point in time, then it's just a question of ones own ability and nothing intentionally detrimental to the other swappers.

[Jimboha! 0]

Do you join in swaps?
YES, well over a dozen in the past year or two.

 

Why?
1. I love getting lots of new flies to try.
2. I like to see the quality of tying that I can try to attain.
3. I like the excuse to tie multiples of the same pattern. As others have pointed out, sometimes you need that to get the quallity you desire. But mainly it gives me the chance to really figure out a fly and the shortcuts and tricks to tying it quickly but well.

 

What makes them a good experience for you?
Enough time to complete, the commeraderie on the discussion board. Getting the flies in a timely manner...

 

What makes them a bad experience for you?
...getting the flies very late. Sometimes I have even forgotten about the flies before they show up.

 

Is there something that bugs you about the swaps you've been involved with?
I hate the ever increasing postage!

 

Have you ever been a swapmeister?
Yes, several times.

 

Do you enjoy doing that?
Yes! I actually enjoy being the swapmeister very much. Partly because it eliminates that thing I hate mentioned above: postage. As long as the participants all play by the self-addressed-stamped-envelope rule (and most do), as swapmeister, I don't have to pay any postage!

 

Is there anything you would change about the swap experience?
Well, I would require the swapmeister to use a time maching to go forward in time to see who the deadbeats will be. Then don't let them join. Other than that, I think think the swap experience is great.

I actually like to get TWO of every pattern in a swap. I have not seen any swaps like that, but once as swapmeister I had to tie another set to make up for a drop-out, so I got two of each. My reason: If I'm successfully fishing your marvelous fly, and it gets lost - I have no replacement at the time, nor do I have an example to tie more later. Perhaps that comment to have people post their materials and instructions, along with a photo, would address this one for me. Then I can recognize that winner fly and tie more myself.

 

What do you do with your swapped flies?
Mostly I fish them. Some I give away, or throw away, or razor to salvage the hooks. Some are works of art that I like to admire constantly!

 

[Li'lDave 0]

Is there anything you would change about the swap experience?

Well, I would require the swapmeister to use a time maching to go forward in time to see who the deadbeats will be. Then don't let them join. Other than that, I think think the swap experience is great.

I actually like to get TWO of every pattern in a swap. I have not seen any swaps like that, but once as swapmeister I had to tie another set to make up for a drop-out, so I got two of each. My reason: If I'm successfully fishing your marvelous fly, and it gets lost - I have no replacement at the time, nor do I have an example to tie more later. Perhaps that comment to have people post their materials and instructions, along with a photo, would address this one for me. Then I can recognize that winner fly and tie more myself.

 

What do you do with your swapped flies?

Mostly I fish them. Some I give away, or throw away, or razor to salvage the hooks. Some are works of art that I like to admire constantly!

 

 

Woot woot!

 

What Jimboha said

[mybadhabit 0]

Do I join swaps?

 

Yes, I've been in over 75 since I joined.

 

Why?

 

I love getting the flies back, I love seeing what someone else uses to tie and fish with.

I love the variety of flies that come back, some of the ones I've seen totally blow me away with the quality of the tie.

I'm like Tony, it's like Christmas all year long, being part of the swap club has really done wonders for my tying abilities and imagination.

 

As for a good experience, I've had so many good experiences that I count the bad ones as no big deal most often. I have many great memories of opening an envelope only to be totally awed by what is in the Altoids tin.

 

As for bad experiences:

 

I've had a couple where 2 or as many as 3 people have dropped out very close to the deadline, and that just is unexcusable. When I join a swap, I have been able to complete the task except when life has gotten in the way, and then I notify the SM as soon as I realize I won't be able to complete the swap. Swaps are supposed to be a great experience for everyone, and I think almost all the ones I've been in have been just that.

 

The things that bug me most, I have been guilty of as a SM, and that is not getting the flies in a timely manner, or not being told what is going on by whomever is holding up the swap. And then there are the no shows, the guys that say "I'm in" and that's the last thing you hear from them. I have started putting in a minimum post exclusion on the swaps I host and that has helped with the dropouts for the most part. Nothing against the new guys, but if you've only been on a couple times there just doesn't seem to be the accountability factor that there is when one has invested time to build up the kind of "friendships" that hold one accountable.

 

I have been a SM in over 20 swaps and I love it.

 

As a SM, I have a special box that I put all the envelopes in until it is time to sort them. I kick the cats out of the room, organize and sort, it only takes a little time, unless there are missing toe tags or missing postage(I hate missing postage). The thing I hate most is no postage or worse no return envelope or a flimsy shipping container that has been crushed. The first few swaps that I did, I paid postage on about 2 or 3 packages in each one until I posted that if it wasn't there they wouldn't get the flies back. I don't understand how that can be forgotten, it's like forgetting to send the flies, and I wouldn't want someone else to feel responsible for paying for my mistake.

 

I have to agree with what others have said about posting the recipe, and I think I will start posting that from now on. It doesn't take long and if it helps out and is appreciated by people, then why not. You guys can hold me to that now.

 

I still have most of the swap flies in a huge compartemented box. Some I will never fish, others have been eaten by fish, trees and grasses.

 

So much for my rant.

 

Blane