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dry floatant question


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33 replies to this topic

#1 shoebop

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:17 AM

Does anyone here know what the dry powder in dry floatant is? I am wondering if I can recharge my floatant with talc powder.


Shoebop

#2 heavynets

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 10:00 AM

I don't believe talc will work. I think the stuff you need is a silica powder. This is what I use, but the real stuff intended for flies may be better.

http://www.3riversar...ent-powder.html

#3 fishinguy

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:00 AM

HYDROPHOBIC fumed micro silica that has been treated with silicone oil or a siloxane compound . Source(awesome write up by silver creek): he mentions it in this thread currently over on the fly tying bench section. http://www.flytyingf...l=&fromsearch=1

#4 Bruce Norikane

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 08:42 PM

I once used a lot of Shimazaki Dry Shake and Frog's Fanny. Years ago, I learned on a forum that the powder used by archers was the same and cost less. I bought some at a local store. A 8 oz. bottle lasted me a couple of years. I think it was the same product in Heavynets link. The local store hasn't stocked the archery powder for a few years. I'm told that archers don't use feathers very much anymore.

 

A bit over a year ago, after reading several article length posts by Silver Creek's, I bought some hydrophobic fumed silica on Amazon. There are several options, but I bought a one quart bottle from Fairly Odd Treasures. It should last me several years, even though I use it a lot more.



#5 shoebop

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 12:31 AM

Thanks Bruce and fishingguy


Shoebop

#6 fishinguy

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:10 AM

Never put 2&2 together until now, but I think I've used the stuff in Bruce's link. It comes in a bondo fiberglass resin patch kit. It's a thickener for the resin. Couldn't find it separately sold by bondo, but your local auto parts store or body shop may have it. Certainly has the right texture/appearance.

#7 DavidR

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:30 AM

http://www.epoxyusa....lica_p/ft02.htm

#8 Idaho RC

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:35 PM

After reading Silver Creeks posts here is how I understand it.  The main ingredient in Frogs Fanny and Loon's Top Ride is Hydrophobic Fumed Silica.  Fumed silica is a thickener for epoxies and bondo and is used in other applications.  What I have been able to gather that Fumed Silica is hydrophilic (attracts water) as it is manufactured and needs to be treated to make it hydrophobic (repel water).  I have a gallon can of fumed silica and I thought I had the correct product.  I tested mine yesterday and it mixed in a cup of water.  It apparently is hydrophilic because it mixed with the water.  I put a little of the Loon Top Ride in a cup of water and it sat on top and didn't mix in.  Sure enough Loon Top Ride is hydrophobic.  I believe that most of the fumed silica on the market is not treated and is hydrophilic.  

 

I just found on eBay a gallon that is listed as Hydrophobic Fumed Silica.  When I get the gallon I will test it in  a cup of water to make certain that it is truly water repelling fumed silica.  

 

I didn't understand what the other material in the Top Ride is.  After reading Silver Creeks notes I understand now that it is moisture absorbing desiccant (silica gel).  The same stuff that is in the water absorbing packs that are shipped in many items.  Evidently you can bake or microwave the desiccant to force the moisture back out of it.  I saved some of these from Christmas presents this year.  As soon as I confirm my new gallon of fumed silica is hydrophobic I am pretty much set for probably the rest of my years.  

 

I am a happy guy.  I think I finally have a handle on this.  



#9 SilverCreek

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:59 PM

After reading Silver Creeks posts here is how I understand it.  The main ingredient in Frogs Fanny and Loon's Top Ride is Hydrophobic Fumed Silica.  Fumed silica is a thickener for epoxies and bondo and is used in other applications.  What I have been able to gather that Fumed Silica is hydrophilic (attracts water) as it is manufactured and needs to be treated to make it hydrophobic (repel water).  I have a gallon can of fumed silica and I thought I had the correct product.  I tested mine yesterday and it mixed in a cup of water.  It apparently is hydrophilic because it mixed with the water.  I put a little of the Loon Top Ride in a cup of water and it sat on top and didn't mix in.  Sure enough Loon Top Ride is hydrophobic.  I believe that most of the fumed silica on the market is not treated and is hydrophilic.  

 

I just found on eBay a gallon that is listed as Hydrophobic Fumed Silica.  When I get the gallon I will test it in  a cup of water to make certain that it is truly water repelling fumed silica.  

 

I didn't understand what the other material in the Top Ride is.  After reading Silver Creeks notes I understand now that it is moisture absorbing desiccant (silica gel).  The same stuff that is in the water absorbing packs that are shipped in many items.  Evidently you can bake or microwave the desiccant to force the moisture back out of it.  I saved some of these from Christmas presents this year.  As soon as I confirm my new gallon of fumed silica is hydrophobic I am pretty much set for probably the rest of my years.  

 

I am a happy guy.  I think I finally have a handle on this.  

 

 

Now you got it.

 

What confuses almost everyone is that silica gel (hydrophilic absorbent crystals) and untreated fumed silica (hydrophilic) are identical chemically. They are both Silicon Dioxide (SiO2)

 

One is in crystalline form and the other is a powder. It is not until the powdered fumed silica is treated with siloxane or a some other silicon oil coating that it becomes hydrophobic.

 

You can buy both in bulk form.

 

The link that DavidR posted is one reliable source for hydrophobic fumed silica.  

 

http://www.epoxyusa....lica_p/ft02.htm

 

The silica gel can be bought in bulk at some florist shops. It is used to dry flowers for flower arrangements.

 

https://www.amazon.c.../dp/B001E5U3QQ/

 

I suggest that you transfer the fumed silica to cleaned used ketchup bottles and then you can squeeze the bottles to refill the floatant bottles.


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#10 Bruce Norikane

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:17 PM

...

 

 

I suggest that you transfer the fumed silica to cleaned used ketchup bottles and then you can squeeze the bottles to refill the floatant bottles.

 

 

and that is a simple but really important tip!

 

This powder is so light that it scatters everywhere when you try to pour it. A plastic squeeze bottle makes the whole process so smooth. I use empty plastic mustard bottles.

 

Thanks Silver!

 

AG1100L.jpg



#11 j8000

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:38 PM

Has anyone used that recipe in the "Trout" book? 



#12 j8000

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 03:52 PM

Says it's 2 ounces of paraffin wax dissolved in 1 pint of unleaded gasoline.  Supposed to clean the fly in addition to leaving a small layer of wax.



#13 FIN-ITE 34

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:29 PM

I prefer to use lighter fluid and paraffin.



#14 j8000

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:40 PM

Interesting.  The book said you could substitute it with other similar products.  Lighter fluid just seem way more expensive though.



#15 mikechell

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 10:16 PM

The smell/aroma/odor of gasoline is an additive ... designed to alert someone that it's leaking out.

 

"White gas" (camp-stove fuel) and lighter fluids don't have aromatic additives.  That would be my only reason to recommend the latter over the former.


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